Aspiration?

[Attic Light]

I posted a few days ago, looking for help with feeding, although now I might have a bigger problem! My squirrel is approx 4 weeks old, eyes still closed, and I found him on Monday.

Since posting, I've gotten 1cc needles, and he's taken to them very well. It's made feeding a lot easier, although now I'm worried that he may have aspirated some of the milk. While feeding him I've never had any problems with milk coming from his nose, or bubbles from his nose and mouth, all today he's been sneezing. his nose isn't runny, and he's not 'click'ing, but he's definitely sneezing. A lot. Pretty much as long as he's awake, he'll sneeze once every 5-10 seconds, although once he's asleep it seems to go away. I also noticed that when I took him out of his nest tonight that his face was wet, running in lines from the corner of his mouth across close to his ears. He's always been a messy eater, so it's quite possible that it could just be left over from lunch.

Could this be a sign that he needs to go to the vet? Our current vet doesn't handle small animals; I don't know of one in the area which does, although tomorrow morning we're planning on going to our local vet and ask for advice for somewhere which would deal with him.

Is this a sign of aspiration, or something less serious? Thank you for your help in advance!

[Apple Corps]

Hard to tell - clicking when breathing is the standard symptom. One thing I would do for sure is to get your vet to give you a Baytril tablet to have on hand just in case - things always appear to go downhill on a Saturday evening or Sunday morning with little help available.

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

The 1cc syringes will help control the milk flow much better.
If he does aspirate turn him upside down and let it run out.
If he is sneezing it out is good.
Just watch fior chest clicking, refusal of formula or overall lethargy.

[Attic Light]

I don't think it's his bedding, although he's been spending more time in his nest than he has been previously (due to me having to leave the house, etc)-- We're going to switch over his bedding temporarily to paper towels, just to see if that's what's causing it.

His gums are pink-- around his mouth is almost a dark red, although I'm fairly certain they've been that colour since he warmed up on Monday. His eyes are still closed, although the pads of his feet are warm. He's been acting pretty much consistent to how he's been before the sneezing started-- bursts of energy before / while feeding, which slowly winds down until he just goes to sleep soon after. He's getting dehydrated again, however, and we're giving him subQ fluids, although we're going to switch over to pedialyte tonight.

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

I agree with Gamma if you arent already using scent free like ALL free
I would do so now because he will get irritated in the future.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

How much and how often are you feeding the little tyke? It is NOT normal for them to need additional fluids. The milk should have plenty of fluids to keep him hydrated.

When you say 1cc needles, you are taking the needle off and just feeding with the syringe, right?

[Attic Light]

I'm using 1cc syringes that come without needles on the end, yeah. Every 2-4 hours, juuust a smidge under 4cc. He weighed 77grams as of wednesday afternoon.

We weren't using entirely scent-free, although we don't tend to use very much, but we'll definitely change from now on!

I did my best to look up his nose earlier, and it all seems clear. It's not leaking, there doesn't seem to be any blockage that I can see.

[Apple Corps]

The amount sounds correct - what exactly are you feeding him?

edit - Esbilac - I found your earlier post :-)

[Attic Light]

Yup-- 1 part Esbilac, 2 parts water, .5 part whipping cream, for anybody else curious.

[foxsquirrels]

Yesterday afternoon I watched a necropsy of a 4 week old squirrel. The person had been told to use Pedialyte for rehydrating the baby which she did. She was using Esbilac puppy formula for the feedings. The kidneys were TRASHED on this baby.
If a baby is dehydrated from diarrhea, Pedialyte is a good thing to use. If the baby is dehydrated from lack of fluids and food, sub-q fluids is a great thing to do or water with some glucose, dextrose or plain pancake syrup added to it is best to use. When a baby is dehydrated from lack of fluids the kidneys are already overtaxed. The brain and heart will get all of the nutritional values that this baby has so it can survive. The kidneys will suffer for this. The extra additives that Pedialyte has in it will overwork the kidneys causing renal failure. I have been taught this ever since I started rehabbing.
PLEASE SOMEONE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. IF I AM, I NEED TO CORRECT MY REHABBING PROCEDURES AND CORRECT MY ADVICE TO OTHERS. I'm not a rehabber that won't change something if it is in the best interest of the animals. I try to save all the animals that I can wild and domestic. I always appreciate being corrected if I'm wrong and being given the correct information with the facts to back it up.

[Attic Light]

In all honesty, I'm not sure why the squirrel is dehydrated. I've been feeding him regularly with the aforementioned formula, and he's not having diarrhoea. His gums are pink and healthy, but going by the tent test, he's still moderately dehydrated.

[Apple Corps]

I assume you are diluting 1 part of regular strength Esbilac liquid formula with double the volume of water - then a dash of whipping cream?

[foxsquirrels]

Hi Gammas Baby, I think I have been instructed and taught by one of the best there is and I have SO MUCH to learn. She has a large rehab facility and is VERY well respected in Oklahoma and surrounding areas. She gave me all of the technical information as to why this happens. I've studied anatomy and physiology but do not have the experience with necropies to actually see why certain things happen and what it looks like.
You can look at her facility on line, the name is Wild Heart Ranch in Claremore, Oklahoma. She also has a board much like this one called Wildlife Care and Support group where all types of wildlife is discussed. I would love for her to give this board her explanation instead of my inexperienced one. I will ask her to post her explanation of when to use Pedialyte for dehydration and when to use a water/dextose solution. I would not want ANYONE to change their procedure on my advice, but I trust hers implicitly.

[Attic Light]

I assume you are diluting 1 part of regular strength Esbilac liquid formula with double the volume of water - then a dash of whipping cream?

I'm using the liquid Esbilac (I've overseen some arguments about powder vs liquid, please no one yell at me!), so it's 1.5cc Esbilac, 3cc water, and .75cc whipping cream.

[foxsquirrels]

I'm sorry, :dono I can't help you with that, I've never used liquid Esbilac.

[Attic Light]

Thanks for trying, either way!

[Apple Corps]

You have it right :thumbsup :thumbsup

[foxsquirrels]

I'm not sure if anyone is on that can give you a definite answer. The amounts you just posted seem logical to me, since all you are trying to do is dilute the amount of protein you are giving with water and add extra calories with whipping cream.:thumbsup

[foxsquirrels]

Apple Corps to the rescue!!:jump :jump

[Apple Corps]

The pancake syrup or sugar water will rapidly raise blood sugar levels to treat hypoglycemic shock - the brain shuts down w/o blood sugar - very simple.

Pedialyte provides sugar and water and some salts for electrolyte balance.

My late Friday sense is that you have the feeding down correctly and we need to focus on the hydration thing. Perhaps you slip in an additional 2cc of water between feedings and curtail the Pedialyte for tomorrow.

[Attic Light]

I'll try to do that, then, and I'll have updates on how he's doing tomorrow.

[Attic Light]

An update; although his nose isn't runny, he's definitely sneezing up a clear mucus.

[Attic Light]

I'm having a lot of trouble finding a vet with a wildlife license who can give us meds for him. The local animal control's said they would only put him down, and we're going to try the further rehab centre again, although we're pretty confident that they'll just say they don't take squirrels outside of the immediate area.

[Apple Corps]

Clear is usually not associated with a bacterial infection - that tends top be white. How viscous is what he is sneezing? Makes me think about an allergic reaction.

[squirrelsrule&bunniestoo]

If you are using the liquid esbilac, you do not need to add water to it. It is already mixed to be the same as the 2:1 powdered form. How long are you keeping the container of esbilac? It goes bad in just 72 hours after opening the can. You can freeze it and it stays good longer, but the liquid in the fridge only stays good for 3 days.

[Apple Corps]

My two cents is that the Esbilac feeding routine sounds fine - as SR&BT said keep it fresh and dispose of after 48 hours or so (that may be a gimmick just to sell more but play it safe). The additional water would not be causing this sneezing / clear liquid discharge.

So - tell us about the hydration this morning using the gentle skin pinch on the back of the neck.

[squirrelfriend]

I have Pm'd her to inform her of a vet that can take her. I don't know where in Ontario she is but the vet I told her about will not take the squirrel away or report her. They do treat squirrels. I have taken Weebles there before. Don't let them talk you into putting the critter down. they were telling me that Weebles prognosis was poor and that putting her down was advisable, several times. Well, a couple of years later and I still have her. With their treatment she was better the very same night of the day I took her in.

[Apple Corps]

squirrelfriend - great action - :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

[Attic Light]

If I use full strength Esbilac, should I still add in the whipping cream? I've been throwing it out just under every 72 hours (the last feeding is probably around 69 hours after the can's been opened). The only thing is that the first time I fed him, I used full strength Esbilac, and he had diaherra shortly afterwards. Could that simply be due to the fact that his body wasn't used to food in the first place?

The pee is still clear, and he's going pretty regularly. The mucus was clear, there was only a very small amount, although it was quite thick.

The idea that it might just be swallowing spit the wrong way could be quite true-- although I don't see his teeth coming out, he had woken up with what can only be called drool smeared from both sides of his mouth. He does get quite wobbly rather often, as well. But is it normal for this is last as long as it has, over 24 hours?

And thank you very much, squirrelfriend, we're going to be keeping the contact and probably calling this afternoon, although with the long weekend we might not have much luck.

[Attic Light]

All right, an update and a new problem. I've called the vet that squirrelfriend suggested, but they'll be closed for the long weekend. He's still sneezing, if less frequently, although now he's definitely sneezing up milky white mucus. More worrisome, however, is that something's happened to his left forearm. I can't think of anything that's happened to him since we've gotten him, but I don't know. It's very swollen around and about the elbow. He still uses it to bare weight, although doesn't hold on as much with his hand as he does with his right hand. He doesn't seem to show any pain when I touch it, however. I'm worried that it may have been dislocated in whatever event it was that left him on the ground. If this is the case, is there anything that can be done for him by a vet? We're going to try again on Tuesday when they should be open, so there's not very much we can do now, or is there?

[Apple Corps]

That is NOT a good sign - is there any clicking sound as he breathes?

Do you have access to a single tablet of any antibiotic?

Baytril (vet antibiotic)
Doxycycline
Cipro
Augmentin
Keflex

All of these would be of value.

How much does he weigh?

And yes - vets can treat many ortho issues.

[Apple Corps]

AL - if you do not have any antibiotics you might be able to plead your case to a pharmacist for a single tablet - 125mg or 250 mg or 500 mg - whatever size you get we will calc the proper dosage for you.

[Attic Light]

I believe we may still have some antibiotics left over from a cat brought to the vet a few weeks ago-- I need to find them for the name and size, however.

If they are suitable, however, how would I feed it to him? I assume... grinding it up, or something, and mixing it with water of formula? I'll try to find the exact sort this afternoon.

[Attic Light]

It's also worth adding that the white mucus seems to have disappeared-- I'm not sure if it was a one-time thing, or what, but his nose has gone back to be normally dry.

[foxsquirrels]

Aspiration pneumonia doesn't disappear. Are there any other signs of aspiraton?

[Apple Corps]

Lets just keep monitoring his condition - let us know what antibiotic you have and we'll be ready if necessary.

The normal administration is to dissolve the tablet in water and give it orally with a syringe (no needle of course) :thumbsup

[Attic Light]

There aren't any other symptoms-- no clicking, he's still quite active, and still has a voracious appetite. I've also never seen formula come out his nose. He is still sneezing, however, but there's no mucus coming up. Would it be worth it to maybe give him the antibiotic anyway, just to be on the safe side? As I understand it, if he doesn't need it, it wouldn't be detrimental to him.

[Apple Corps]

NO - once started - you need to complete a full dosing regimen. Otherwise you risk a serious rebound infection as well as contributing to drug resistant strains.

I'd just keep monitoring his condition and be ready to treat if necessary.

[Attic Light]

That makes a lot of sense, thanks. I haven't gotten home use to find the antibiotics yet, but I'll update once I do.

[Apple Corps]

:thumbsup :thumbsup

[Attic Light]

All right, this is the antibiotic I've got until further notice.

Clavamox (amoxicillin and clavulate potassium tablets), 5 tablets, 62.5mg. Would these be suitable (obviously with a correct dosage), and if so, can someone help work out what that dosage would be in the case of pneumonia?

[Apple Corps]

No - that really is a marginal antibiotic for treating pneumonia - of some value but not a first line choice.

How much does your fuzzer weigh?

[Attic Light]

It's all we have until, at soonest, Tuesday or Wednesday.

We just weighed him now, and he's up to 80g.

[Apple Corps]

AL - the normal vet dose is 6 mg/pound - so about 1 mg would be the dose for your 80 gram (3 oz) fuzzer.

Dissolve the 62 mg tablet in 10 cc of cool water and administer .2 cc twice a day.

That is 2/10 ths of a cc

That said - not a good choice though - lets just keep monitoring for the moment

[Attic Light]

Thank you so much for the help-- I'll keep it in mind, although hopefully he'll be good until the week. Hopefully we won't need to use it!

[Attic Light]

Since putting him on 100% formula, he's started getting diarrhea. Should I water it down a little more once again?

[Apple Corps]

AL - yes - just thin it out but try not to make too many adjustments - you want to get to a stable diet for him.

[Attic Light]

That sounds right to me.

[Attic Light]

Just how loud is the clicking supposed to be for pneumonia? Although I don't think he's doing it, I'm starting to get kinda paranoid that he might start at any time. Will it happen constantly, or in spurts, and would it still happen while he's asleep? That'd be the easiest time to tell-- it seems the instant I pick him up, he's away and making little chirping noises at me.

[Attic Light]

No, I haven't-- I don't even know what those things are. :x Can they be picked up at a pharmacy, or do they need to be specially ordered?

[Attic Light]

All right, thanks. I'll check them out on Tuesday- everything's going to be closed tomorrow.

[Attic Light]

Thanks a lot! I'll check it out.

I really hope the little guy (We've named him now, he's Finnigan) does okay, but it just seems like it's one thing after another with him. Oh well.

[Attic Light]

It is a pretty awesome name!

[Abacat]

How's little Finnigan this morning? Hoping for the best for him. :grouphug

[Attic Light]

he's doing pretty well-- he had diarrhea once during the night without any stimulation from me, but he's only had two feedings of watered-down formula. He hasn't gotten any more symptoms, but his sneeze us still here and his arm still swollen. He's started to flick his tail around with a bit more purpose, though, and his eyes should be opening any day now!