Suspected Pasteurella

[winky2]

Does anyone out there have any experience treating pasteurella? I have a 5 week old gray (who I wrote about in another thread: see bilateral ankle swelling) that I suspect has a P. multocida infection. I hope it's ok to post a new thread. I need to make sure I'm on the right track before she gets any sicker. Thanks!!!

[Sissy]

If it is Pasteruella the squirrel needs to be on antibiotics ASAP! Has the squirrel been bitten by a cat or had a to close encounter with one. Not all cats carry this, but some do.

[LynninIN]

Here is the link to Winky's other thread with the history of how this happened and tried treatments. http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12348

[Apple Corps]

Do you have access to Baytril? If so, I would start the regimen at once if are reasonably confident that such an infection is present.

[winky2]

Started Baytril last night (5mg/kg) BID and discontinued the Clavamox which she had been on for several days.

Yes, she was found surrounded by cats almost 2 weeks ago and had a very tiny abrasion on her right thigh which was scrubbed with chlorhex and was not visible the next day.

She's lethargic today and her appetite has decreased.

[Sissy]

Have you checked and made sure she is hydrated. Baytril will dehydrate a baby quickly if extra fluids aren't given. Do the pinch test and see if she is dehydrated and if she is start extra fluids in between her feedings. Being dehydrated will cause her to not want to eat.

[Apple Corps]

winky - what is your squirrels weight and what mg dose are you giving her?

[LynninIN]

Winky is a vet tech she was helped by a vet with proper dosage on the meds she is giving.

[Apple Corps]

We can all make mistakes (me included) so more eyes on the calcs doesn't hurt.

The fuzzer should be better after so many days on antibiotics OR we have the wrong Dx.

[Loopy Squirrel]

I had a very strange outbreak of "something" last year and pasteurella was suspected. We tried many different antibiotics and some responded to SMZ, some I had to use baytril, and others were so sick that the vet wanted them on baytril and doxycyline. It's a hard core course, but it did work.

[Apple Corps]

Loopy - here is the write up on Baytril:

Bactericidal, broad-spectrum antibiotic once touted as being the miracle drug for mycoplasma, but we've found that using the recommended dose, symptoms return very soon after ending treatment (although some rat owners report having excellent results). Better results have been achieved using much higher doses (as shown). Use in combination with Doxycycline for best results. Injectable form tastes horrible and must be mixed with something to make it palatable. Can also be nebulized. Relatively expensive. Prescription needed.

:D

[Mars]

Found you. :D The Nutriferon is available through Shaklee Corp or one of their distributors

https://www.shaklee.com/20960.html

I use many of their products in my rehab. It's well worth the membership or making friends with your local distributor. :)

[winky2]

I don't believe we carry Sulfamethoxazole at my hospital. I'm going to stay the course for tonight. I've given SQ fluids and she's a little perkier. I'll update in the morning. Thanks for all your insight!

[winky2]

I finally found a camera and took some photos tonight but they were all too big to load and I'm not sure how to make the smaller. Here is the one that made the cut. You can see the abscess on the inner right hock and some edema over the left hock is hard to see in this photo.

[Loopy Squirrel]

I have been following the post and I hate to ask what may seem like a stupid question, but has the baby been x-rayed to make sure that those are not breaks to the ankles (tibia/fibula) from the fall. If the baby fell from the tree and landed full weight on the back feet it's possible to break the tibia or fibula or both. You should check out Nicky's thread in the infirmary.

[4skwerlz]

Looks like an abscess to me.

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

Looks like abscess to me, too.

[Mountain Mama]

I'm thinking abscess as well. Maybe a course of doxy and baytil would be worthwhile. You would cover for pastuerella and staph.

Looking for good news this morning.

[Frickster]

what a cute little tummy....i hope it all gets sorted out soon so she can be on the mend....she's adorable!

[fritzp]

Until I saw the pictures I thought you had a septic arthritis, but it does look like an abcess on the inside of the right hock. Is the swelling on the left ankle similar?
An abcess won't go down very well with antibiotics because the body walls it off with connective tissue-which is also the good news because it keeps the bacteria out of the blood stream. The antibiotics you have used are broad spectrum and should take care of Pasteurella or most other common pathogens. They just can't reach the site. You said she was bright and alert, no pain on palpation, not noticeable heat in the area. I would guess the loss of appetite might be more due to the antibiotics than the swelling. As I am sure you know, antibiotics can do that. I would keep her just on the Baytril (proven OK in squirrels) and see if the abcess starts to develope a head (soft spot in the center). If so you can lance it and allow the abcess to drain, then it should heal up fine. I doubt that baby is infectious but if the abcess breaks or you lance it, the pus will be so she should be isolated at that point.

[winky2]

Thanks for fixing the photo Gammas Baby! She had her full breakfast this morning, the swelling has gone down some, and she's a little less lethargic.

I'm sure its not fractured. She had complete mobility when I got her, she wasn't painful, there was no deformity, redness, swelling, contusions or crepitus and it's been almost 2 weeks since she fell from the nest. In my experience a fracture in one this small would have been healed by now. An abscess maybe, but not like the ones we typically see associated with puncture wounds. It's not warm to the touch or super inflamed and there doesn't seem to be a lot of pressure building up beneath the skin. Remember this started out as a generalized cellulitis over both hocks. The thick white fibrous exudate that I aspirated was not pus-like at all. I wish I could have gotten a smear. Thanks for looking everyone! She's a real sweetheart and now that she isolated from the others she really affectionate. I'm trying not to get attached but I always do.

[Frickster]

how's the patient doing?

[SaraK]

Is Clavulin (Clavamox) not useful for cat bites? When my cats bring me an animal I always assume it's been bitten, and I was wondering if it's a good idea to run a precautionary course of antibiotics just in case of pasturella. If I should, what antibiotic should I use, and is there some sort of dosage guideline for squirrels/chippies/other small rodents?

[Apple Corps]

A link 4 u

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurella_multocida

Scroll down to the Treatment and you can link to tons of info.

Baytril would be many peoples first choice - the "cillins" are tough on rodents digestive tracts.

Dose calcs are here

http://www.guinealynx.info/dose_calculator.html

Does that help?

[SaraK]

It was helpful, thanks!

My mother - a human doctor - uses Clavamox in her office for cat bites. She recommended it as a good blanket antibiotic, to take care of cat bites, possible pneumonia, and other bacterial infections. It's also the easiest for me to get, I can have Clavulin suspension of any dose within an hour's notice without a vet's appointment. Is there any way to ease it's affects on the digestive tract?

The wikipedia page on Baytril said it was ineffective against anaerobic bacteria, and in the case of an animal bite anaerobic bacteria can often be transmitted with the pasturella.

[Apple Corps]

That is correct - but Pasturella is the life threatening pathogen we want to "nuke".

This is why I don't suggest Clavamox as a first choice:

AMOXICILLIN TRIHYDRATE

BRAND: CLAVAMOX 6.25mg/lb BID, PO
.15cc/lb for 10 to 14 days
Bactericidal, slightly more broad-spectrum antibiotic than amoxicillin. Good to prevent infection after surgery or injury, for urinary tract infections, or secondary infections. Does not attack mycoplasma directly, but in cases of multi-factorial infection, may kill off the secondary infection allowing the immune system to get the mycoplasma infection back in check. Works well in combination with Gentocin. Especially good for treating skin and soft tissue infections such as abscesses. Tasty and easy to give. Inexpensive. Prescription needed.

[winky2]

Update! Finally. The swelling in both hocks has resolved. The right side (abscess) did drain a tiny bit but the edema resolved after two days of Baytril. I kept her on the Baytril for 7 days. I would have kept her on it longer but she was having GI problems and didn't want to eat. She is now the smallest of the three orphans and she was the middle one before all this. Today she has a new problem... Malocclusion of the upper incisors. I just noticed it today after watching her turn down a pecan and suck on a watermelon chunk instead. She's still on esbilac so she'll be OK nutritionally. I'll try to find a vet tomorrow who is willing to gas her down and clip those teeth. I'll update soon.

[Apple Corps]

Well well, great news on a Sunday afternoon. The 7 day might be on the short side - just keep a careful eye out for rebound infection.

Off to the fuzzer vet :thumbsup

[winky2]

Update. It's hard to find a vet in my neck of the woods who will treat a wild animal. But I decided to give my local vet a shot this morning and I took my "sugar Glider" (aka Eastern Grey Squirrel) in. The doc came in and said lets see what you have. I pulled out my sweet baby and told him how I raised her from a tiny helpless infant, told him how she almost died from pasteurella, showed him her teeth and explained that she can't eat then showed him the teeth of her cage mate for comparison, put on my saddest face ever and waited for his reply. He said OK, lets see what we can do for her. He boxed her down good with Iso and clipped them teeth short. He thinks her bite is too crooked to correct with clipping but I'm going to give it a try. So she is officially a sugar glider, I have a vet I can trust to keep my secret, and she's one step closer to eating her first nut. I tried to get pics but all you can see are hands and a tail.

[winky2]

Update. She has recovered both physically and emotionally from her vet visit yesterday and she's not holding a grudge. She didn't realize she could use her teeth for a while there but finally (after I bribed her with a Graham cracker) she figured it out. Today she ate an almond! I have high hopes for this little survivor. I see a big tall oak tree in her not to distant future.

[foxsquirrels]

Winky2, how wonderful for you and your little baby!!!:jump I'll bet she feels 200% better.:thumbsup :thumbsup

[jme2323]

oh i am so glad you got this fixed and she is doing better!!!

thank your vet profusely!!!
:wott

[LynninIN]

:wahoo Great news!

I'm happily moving this thread to the non ER section of the board. :wott