Bayer Advanced Grub Control/Imidacloprid/Merit

[mainemargaret]

Hi All - I'm fighting a japanese beetle invasion and this product was recommended to me. I'm not keen on using an insecticide, but I'm pretty desperate (have already gone through many other options). However, I won't use anything that will be harmful to the grays that frequent my yard and bury nuts. Does anyone have any experience with this product? I've done some basic web research, and I do plan to call Bayer, but also wanted to know what the squirrel experts think. Imidacloprid appears to be an ingredient in some flea medications that can be used on squirrels (and other mammals), so at some low level it can't be too toxic. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thank you so much!

[skye]

Hi There
I know about the japanese beetle they have started on my hibicus tree I just got last week. I didn't have problems this much since I got this tree. I heard using dish soap with water spray on plant won't hurt plant and will kill the beetles just would have to do it often when rains.

[Frickster]

have you tried the beetle bags? the squirrels in our yard don't mess with them and there's nothing to spray.

[mainemargaret]

It amazes me how quickly folks reply on here - it's wonderful, thank you! I did use the bags, at the far end of my property, and they brought more beetles than I've ever had before. I was dumping about 200 a day - really gross. Now I'm hand picking as many as I can from grape vines that climb about 25 feet. The way the vines grow, I can't access the top 15 feet or so to spray or pick. So what I'm really trying to deal with now is the grubs from all the eggs laid in my lawn, so they don't grow up to be new beetles. Maybe I need to rent a mole or some other grub-living critter!

[Buddy'sMom]

:Welcome

The Bayer product says it contains .25% imidacoprid.
The Merit product says it contains .5% imidacloprid.

So if concentration in this product is significant as far as SQUIRREL INGESTION or CONTACT, bear in mind that Merit's is twice as strong.

Imidacloprid is a General Use Pesticide used in a number of applications (http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/haloxyfop-methylparathion/imidacloprid-ext.html) Here is the tox information from that link:

ACUTE TOXICITY
Imidacloprid is moderately toxic. The oral dose of technical grade imidacloprid that resulted in mortality to half of the test animals (LD50) is 450 mg/kg body weight in rats (1), and 131 mg/kg in mice (3). The 24-hour dermal LD50 in rats is >5,000 mg/kg. It is considered non-irritating to eyes and skin (rabbits), and non-sensitizing to skin (guinea pigs) (3). Some granular formulations may contain clays as inert ingredients that may act as eye irritants. In acute inhalation toxicity tests with rats, the airborne concentration of imidacloprid that resulted in mortality to half of the test organisms (LC50) is > 69 mg/meters cubed air in the form of an aerosol, and >5323 mg/meters cubed air in the form of dust. These values represent the maximum attainable airborne concentrations (3).

...
ECOLOGICAL EFFECTS
Effects on Birds
Imidacloprid is toxic to upland game birds. The LD50 is 152 mg/kg for bobwhite quail, and 31 mg/kg in Japanese quail (1, 3). In studies with red- winged blackbirds and brown-headed cowbirds, it was observed that birds learned to avoid imidacloprid treated seeds after experiencing transitory gastrointestinal distress (retching) and ataxia (loss of coordination). It was concluded that the risk of dietary exposure to birds via treated seeds was minimal. Based on these studies, imidacloprid appears to have potential as a bird repellent seed treatment (7, 8).
Effects on Aquatic Organisms
The toxicity of imidacloprid to fish is moderately low. The 96-hour LC50 of imidacloprid is 211 mg/l for rainbow trout, 280 mg/l for carp, and 237 mg/l for golden orfe. In tests with the aquatic invertebrate Daphnia, the 48- hour EC50 (effective concentration to cause toxicity in 50% of the test organisms) was 85 mg/l (3). Products containing imidacloprid may be very toxic to aquatic invertebrates.
Effects on Other Animals (Nontarget species)

Imidacloprid is highly toxic to bees if used as a foliar application, especially during flowering, but is not considered a hazard to bees when used as a seed treatment (3).

(No one actually looks at affects on squirrels, but the bird notes are interesting.)

I guess the open question is whether squirrels would eat any granules and how many. :dono You know, how much does a granule weigh? Then convert to mg based on the product. How many granules could be eaten... etc.

Have you considered Milky Spore? Look at: http://www.dirtworks.net/Milky-Spore-Grub-Control.html I used it a long time ago and think it worked ok. This would NOT BE HARMFULL to squirrels and other wildlife. However, it would not solve your current problem, but next year's invasion. (The Bayer and Merit may work that way too if they act against grubs, rather than beetles.)

This Milky Spore link also lists a natural plant oil pesticide (Active Ingredients: clove oil and sodium lauryl sulphate) that can be used on the beetles you have now:

SharpShooter Natural Insecticide
To control the toughest bugs on your favorite roses, flowers, vegetables, shrubs and fruit trees, SharpShooter kills the most common flying and crawling insects, including; fire ants, aphids, bean beetles, cabbage loopers, caterpillars, earwigs, flea beetles, Japanese Beetles, leafhoppers, mealybugs, mites, rose chafers, scales, snails/slugs and adult whiteflies.
SharpShooter is made of natural plant oils that kill insects on contact. You can even spray up to the day of harvest.

A natural plant oil product should be of very low toxicity to mammals -- this is indicated by the label allowing spraying up to the day of harvest. In general, the plant oil or plant extract pesticide products are much safer for humans, animals and the environment than traditional chemical pesticides.

Hope this is helpful.
:grouphug

[Buddy'sMom]

..... Maybe I need to rent a mole or some other grub-living critter!

:nono :nono :nono :nono No ... you REALLY don't want the moles, too! :sanp3 :jump
In fact, I hadn't cared so much about the grubs (:yuck but mostly out of sight) or the beetles, but the moles really do terrible things to your yard ... it becomes almost hazardous to walk because it gets so uneven :shakehead

Good luck!

[Sciurus1]

I know you are desperate, but I wouldn't want to test this out on the squirrels if I were in your shoes. The beetles will come and go, some years worse, some mild. I have a friend who gets infestations of Army worms, which are really catapillars, on a 5 to 10 year cycle. They are so gross, as they can swing on long threads hanging from eves, and trees, hard not to run into. They eat nearly everything green. Still she will not spray them for fear of that passing onto ther her squirrels and chipmunks, and their babies. We have snails our in our neck of the woods, thanks to the French, who brought them over to breed for escargot dishes they like to eat Ugh< gag, etc...! One thing they have found to combats them in gardens, and crop areas, is using a flock of hungry geese or ducks to eat them up, trained for this purpose. They love them, and in no time they are gone! Interesting that geese are from Europe just like the snails. There is likely then a natural predator for these pests, or a way to compat them so as to not allow their eggs to develop.

[mainemargaret]

Thanks everyone! Buddy's Mom - great info, I appreciate it. I called Bayer for their perspective and they say the level is very safe for small mammals once the granules are watered in and the grass dries, even if buried nuts are later eaten. I'm still going to look for possible alternatives at this point. It's possible that my friendliest squirrel is pregnant, so I'm feeling especially cautious.