My release has turned mean--now what?

[ScootFoundUs]

Oh my gosh, I can hardly believe I'm having to write this but I desperately need help. My husband and I raised a grey from the time he was about 5 weeks. I've posted on here many times and I documented his release in another thread: http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11528

So after about a week outside, he had begun coming up to our covered porch, which we didn't think was a great idea b/c it showed his complete lack of fear but he was doing it and we didn't know how to make him stop. Then this weekend, my husband and I went away on a weekend trip and my mother in law was here to watch our animals and also put food out for Scoot and the other greys (about 3 regulars). I told her to put food in the feeders at night, and by that I meant after dusk when all the squirrels--incl Scoot--were bedded down for the night. Well, she went out Saturday evening, I guess well before dusk, and Scoot came running to her. Yep, there's that problem: lack of fear of people. She walked over to put food in one of the feeders and he was following her around the yard. She'd never held him or anything so she certainly wasn't coaxing him over. He followed her back to the patio. She decided to grab a few nuts to put on a table to distract him so she could finish the feeder-filling. She scooped a few and turned around. Scoot immediately jumped from the ground to her hand and bit the fool out of her finger reaching for the nut. In her shock (and fear), she shook her hand and he jumped to the ground. She immediately went back inside while Scoot polished off the nuts that were then scattered from where she'd dropped them. She didn't go back out again but would watch to see when he wasn't visible, let the dogs out and as soon as they were done with their business, she'd call them right back in.

The following day, back he came to the patio. We had the sunflower seeds out there and the nuts but he'd never bothered them before. He evidiently smelled them and began pulling peanuts out one at a time and running out to bury them. My mother in law saw this through the windows and at first thought: "Great. He's getting food and I don't have to go out there." But after he'd come up for multiple nuts, she figured he'd take every one so once when he ran off to bury yet another, she went and moved all nuts, seeds, etc. inside. And he went berserk. He started jumping on the screens, crawling up, throwing himself against the door (I guess trying to jump up but there's nothing for him to hold onto there), pacing around the patio. And since then, it's continued. He comes up and does this many times throughout the day--the jumping on screens, pacing around the patio and into the yard and back again. My cats are going bananas inside the house but he is unfazed. My mother in law has been too scared to go back outside.

We just got home and heard all of this. I just couldn't believe it. My sweet squirrel? So I walked out and he immediately came hustling down the trees to me, jumped up on my arm and proceeded to bite the snot out of my hand. Twice. I shook him off me and immediately came back inside. He followed me and did all that same nonsense--jumping on the screen, jumping up on the doorknob, peering inside, pacing around. I can only guess he's hungry but I certainly wasn't going to throw food out at that point b/c it'd only reinforce the behavior. Plus, there's been food outside so he couldn't have been starving, really.

So now I don't know what to think or what to do. Heck, now WE'RE afraid to go outside. He follows us around and keeps trying to jump on us, more aggressive than I've ever seen him and obviously we now know he's going to bite if he does get on us. I was so distraught, feeling like we couldn't even walk outside. What if he attacks a dog? How will we even mow the grass? Are we now hostages? And worse, what will happen is he jumps on someone we don't even know? We do live in a neighborhood. At last tonight, I donned long pants, a jacket and two pairs of gloves (incl one leather) and went out. My husband tossed pecans on the ground, which he ran to and began devouring while I repaired the hole we'd cut in the cage to let him go. After he was done, he ran to me and when he crawled into his cage, I closed the door. And that's where we now stand. It broke my heart to put him back in that cage, but my gosh. He's acting so wild yet has no qualms about coming up to anyone in the yard and basically attacking b/c I guess he wants food, altho the feeders are out there with plenty of food in them. And we certainly cannot live our lives in fear of a squirrel.

This is killing me b/c we love him so much and thought he was making a great transition to the outside. I know this is my fault b/c we didn't cut off all interaction with him. But I can't undo that now. I just want to get to a place that we all have normal lives, including Scoot. But I don't have a clue how to proceed from here in light of all this. WHAT DO WE DO NOW???!

[Mars]

First take a deep breathe. You have a problem child not a monster. He is defending what he considers to be HIS and HIS territory. Let's look at the situation and see if we can make some suggestions. First what is your neighborhood like? How close are your neighbors? Would they be willing to help in this project? How much woods vs open land do you have around you? What type of trees?

[Sammy in Canada]

well you could always move outside and let Scoot live in your house :jump , just trying to make you feel better, i dont have enough experience to help you, soon i am sure somebody will be here, I have a red squirrel i rescued, i did try to let him go when he was 12 weeks, he would jump back in his cage and then i brought him in, 1 year later and he still does the same, that was one of my fears that he would jump on strangers and someone would hurt him, i put food out for some grey squirrels at 7.00am and 4.00pm daily, and 10 feet from my house, MAYBE if you stay consistent with the time and place Scoot and friends will eventually get used to that, i hope all works out for you :)

[ScootFoundUs]

Lets see, I live in the back of my neighborhood but I'm pretty well surrounded by folks pretty close by. They most certainly could NOT be employed to help in anyway. I'm not that close to them and some I don't know at all b/c we're separated by a 6 foot fence and they're in another neighborhood, technically.

I don't really have open land around me. My backyard has very mature trees (pines, hardwoods, some cherry trees, a dogwood) and those that have been planted by us or by neighbors are pretty well grown too.

I'd love any suggestions. I just peeked out there and tho it's after dark, he's racing around the inside of the cage and it just breaks my heart to have him trapped once more. Am sure he's thoroughly confused, not to mention, upset. His nest box and hammock are still there, for the record. I really figured he'd bed down and am sure he will eventually. But for now, he still hasn't.

[Mars]

I think you have to let him out. My best advice is to purchase an air horn and use it when ever you see him approaching a person or even the house. I would move the feeder to the back of the yard or stop feeding all together for a while. Your baby need to learn a fear of humans and you need to reclaim your territory. This will be hard but the air horn should quickly teach him some bounderies. Not sure what it will do for your neighbors. :D

The only other option would be to trap him in his nest box and then move the nest box to a tree in an area far from people and then release him.

Perhaps others will come up with other ideas.

[ScootFoundUs]

An air horn, you think? I did see another post where this was suggested as a way to make sure a couple 8 month old greys learned to be afraid of the man's dog. (The man who'd raised them.) I take it he'll run like hell from the horn...

What do I do, blow it each time he comes on the patio or just anytime I see him? Gosh it kills me to think of running him off but I also don't want to be terrorized in my backyard. Don't guess I get to gauge the level of interaction we have, clearly. He's decided but it sure does suck--to put it bluntly. Now I have to wonder if he'll learn to avoid other humans too. Those without air horns...

If anyone else has experienced this or has suggestions/thoughts, please, please let me know.

[atlantasquirrelgirl]

Another less expensive suggestion is a squirt bottle of water, or cheap squirt gun, and give him a blast of water when he approaches you.

I had a male that started random attacks like that. He'd be sweet one time when he took a treat, and then bite me the next. He eventually moved out of my yard when he reached sexual maturity and sought his own space. He wasn't friendly to just anybody, only me, so I wasn't fearful of him approaching anybody else.

[Sammy in Canada]

how about try putting his cage near a tree and putting his food once a day in his cage, and maybe fill a bottle of water to squirt if he jumps on anyone or the house, i would imagine that would work, I would let him out tonight, just a suggestion, being in the cage will make him more attached to you and the house, good luck.:dono

[ScootFoundUs]

I appreciate your input, Gamma. I so hate that this has happened and am as floored about the sudden change. I wish we hadn't put the nuts out on the patio. That was so foolish, looking back. But I'd love to think he may change. I just don't know how to handle this right now, while he is so aggressive, and what if he doesn't change back--I need a plan to reclaim my back yard and also to look out for his own safety.

Thanks for the water gun suggestion, ATLSquirrelGirl. It is far cheaper but is far more dependent on my aim, which is questionable. :) I do have to worry about him approaching others as well. My sister in law came over one day (actually, earlier the day that he bit my mom-in-law) and she went outside and he jumped right up into her lap. Geesh. I wanted to say: Um, please don't try and be around him b/c I don't WANT him interacting with humans, but by then it was too late.

Sammy's Mom, his cage is now near a pine. Actually, that's where it's been all along. My husband also said that about only putting food in his cage but I've seen the other greys go in there and eat from his bowl so I don't know that he'd get any. Of course, there should be plenty of other food in the wild even without our adding to it. I'll definitely discontinue the feeder-filling. Perhaps that's making him more territorial.

I have considered one thing: if I should do now what I should've done all along and that's move the release cage to the very back of our yard and keep him in it for awhile, ceasing all interaction whatsoever. Go down at night after he's asleep and put food out every other day or so but that's it. Then in a few weeks, just re-open the cage one evening and hope this time that enough time has passed without human interaction that he has the necessary fear.

Any thoughts on that effectiveness? Is it too late to do that? I do hate to keep him caged again tho and just going with the air horn/water gun method might do the trick without caging him for awhile longer. But I do worry that he might approach other folks who don't have water guns or air horns...

[Mountain Mama]

SFU, how does Scoot look? Does he appear ill at all?

[Mads]

[QUOTE=Mars]I think you have to let him out. My best advice is to purchase an air horn and use it when ever you see him approaching a person or even the house.

I think that the air horn will be very effective. When I wanted to scare the Fab 5 into their cedar box all at the same time so that I could get the cedar box in the tree with them in it for their release....I first thought I would bring out the dog and they would all run to the cedar box, but that didn't happen, they didn't care. Then I brought out a tamborine, that didn't get them all in the box, and then I brought out the air horn and they all ran into their box, quickly. So to do that a few times and to feed him off from the patio, I think that will cure your problem. :)

[Mrs. Jack]

no expert here. but I wanted to say two things: one is that in my experience with my wilds, they vary vastly. some are much more "friendly" than others, some are more "aggressive" and some are more "shy". Scoot's just becoming whatever it is he would.. second is that you shouldn't keep blaming yourself for "doing" or "not doing" something. we deal with what we're dealt at any given time and second guessing never changes anything and no one here would blame you or give your shoulda's. and I guess there's a third too, this must be really hard a much more difficult transition than often happens, and I wish you the best.

[squirrel princess]

I am so sorry to hear about this. That was my fear about releasing chipper in my back yard with my house on the market. He is really people aggresive but loves me. The food especially nuts had to be the trigger I almost hate giving them to Chipper because a switch goes off and he turns evil. Hopefully he will settle down when you quit putting nuts out:shakehead If you would like another release site check out Cochran Mill Park you can even take his nest box:thumbsup

[Jackie in Tampa]

I really don't know too much about this kind of situation, so I'm only giving my opinion. :D I do know that Scoot "attacking" could stop as quick as it started. At his age many go through a feisty period that usually doesn't last very long, then they are right back to their adorable little selves. Their may be a female in heat in the area that was "setting him off", or any other kind of scent. You may have had a scent on he wasn't used to and didn't realize it was you. I know with my grey, I can't change shampoos or soaps, or look out. The older they get they do become VERY protective of THEIR food, especially nuts. Our indoor babies even do that. I just wouldn't give up on little Scoot yet. I would try and keep everything the same as much as you can. Situations he is familiar with. I just find it very strange that he "turned" overnight. I bet Scoot will be back to his old self real soon.

I'm hoping and praying this has a GREAT outcome. :grouphug :Love_Icon :grouphug
Good posting, I would not do anything drastic, I think that this is a temporary problem, I don't have time to get into writing my thoughts cause Tatcat is coming, and house a mess, will post later...please wait for pm:D

[ScootFoundUs]

Thank you all so much for taking the time to give some input. I desperately want to do what's right but it's been hell trying to figure out what RIGHT is.

SqPrincess, I know what you mean about the nuts. I've wondered if those were what set him off and make him a little more beserk. He definitely seems to go...well, a little nuts when it comes to pecans. My husband thought he read somewhere that nuts to squirrels were like booze to an alcoholic. That sound remotely true to anyone? I'm not sure what else we could put out there now tho, other than sunflower seeds and trust he gets the rest of his nutrients from the trees and Mother Nature.

Jackie--I look forward to your thoughts and will watch my PM. You've been so helpful in the past. I was dying to know if you'd experienced this since you've been through many more releases than I.

MountainMama: Scoot looks the same to me. Maybe a little leaner but definitely not ill in any way.

We're going to get the air horn and try that. We'll get a water gun too, just so we have the option. We're going to move the feeders to the back of the yard and put in them only seeds or corn/seed mix. We'll also put food in them only after dark so no risk of Scoot seeing us and continuing to associate us with food.

And then hope for the best. Limit our time outside and I guess just toot the horn by the door if we see him on the patio at all. I sure hate running him off but we definitely do not have a healthy distance currently--not as long as he's being aggressive. I hope that doing away with nuts altogether will calm him down too...

Again, thanks. I've checked this thread, oh, about 50 times already b/c the support of everyone here is more helpful than you could know. The words of reassurance, the words of "don't second guess yourself," the suggestions and well wishes help so much b/c I feel like I've done him an injustice and certainly feel to blame for the release taking a rough turn. I've got to get a handle on this quickly though b/c we leave to go out of town for a week again next Friday. My poor mother in law is scared to death to go outside. We'll be sure to equip her with the air horn too! :)

Keep any similar experiences or suggestions coming.

[muffinsquirrel]

I know that this isn't what you want to hear, but I truly think that your best bet is to put him with a rehabber for a soft release. He will get a chance to meet other squirrels, and won't have to protect 'his home' and 'his nuts'. Once he is in a different location, the pressure and confusion will be off of him and he will be able to devote all his time to building a drey of his own and staking out his own brand new territory. We are asking an awful lot of these little creatures when we expect them to go from house pet to wild animal. It takes a lot of conditioning to get them ready for that, and we tend to send mixed signals by still treating them as 'semi-pets'.....still feeding them, talking to them, playing with them. You have spent a lot of time teaching him that you are to be trusted and loved - now there has to be a good bit of time spent 'un-teaching' him. It would be a lot easier on both you and the squirrel if that is done by someone different, someone he doesn't know. That way he won't start out with the mixed signals that he has now.

It's hard to release one that you have raised from a baby - it has become 'your child', and you want to protect it and love it forever. But just like with your own children, there comes a time when you have to cut the apron strings and send them out into the world to make their own life. Otherwise they are doomed to never fulfill their right of being what they could and should be. You just have to teach them the things they need to know and then trust that they were paying attention and put them out into the world.

Good luck with your baby, and seriously, think about a rehabber for releasing him - I think it would be the best thing for everyone concerned.

muffinsquirrel

[4skwerlz]

I think Muffinsquirrel's idea is the best one. It's what I would do if I were in your position.

:grouphug I hope and pray you can work this out.:grouphug

[squirrel princess]

I know that this isn't what you want to hear, but I truly think that your best bet is to put him with a rehabber for a soft release. He will get a chance to meet other squirrels, and won't have to protect 'his home' and 'his nuts'. Once he is in a different location, the pressure and confusion will be off of him and he will be able to devote all his time to building a drey of his own and staking out his own brand new territory. We are asking an awful lot of these little creatures when we expect them to go from house pet to wild animal. It takes a lot of conditioning to get them ready for that, and we tend to send mixed signals by still treating them as 'semi-pets'.....still feeding them, talking to them, playing with them. You have spent a lot of time teaching him that you are to be trusted and loved - now there has to be a good bit of time spent 'un-teaching' him. It would be a lot easier on both you and the squirrel if that is done by someone different, someone he doesn't know. That way he won't start out with the mixed signals that he has now.

It's hard to release one that you have raised from a baby - it has become 'your child', and you want to protect it and love it forever. But just like with your own children, there comes a time when you have to cut the apron strings and send them out into the world to make their own life. Otherwise they are doomed to never fulfill their right of being what they could and should be. You just have to teach them the things they need to know and then trust that they were paying attention and put them out into the world.

Good luck with your baby, and seriously, think about a rehabber for releasing him - I think it would be the best thing for everyone concerned.

muffinsquirrel

Cochran Mill Nature Center will do this for you if you call and give them the story of what has happened. If you would like I can call and talk to rick and even meet you and pick up scoot and take him there.

[ScootFoundUs]

Maybe that is what we should do. Honestly it's what I first thought of--seeing if a rehabber would take him but then I thought: who would? considering the aggression. I was thinking rehabbers were more baby-raisers, I guess. But perhaps there is an option out there. Donna, I'm not familiar with Cochran Mill but am sure I can locate them and talk to them about this. If I have issues, I'll be sure to PM you for sure.

For an update, I ended up getting an air horn today. At lunch, I went out with my jacket on and with the leather gloves and air horn in pocket. Scoot was far less aggressive today. More like the old guy I knew before. He jumped on inside of the cage by me but he did not care for the smell of those gloves at all. They're plenty used and must be full of smells. Anyway, he cared not for those. I opened the cage and out he came, not like a shot but just meandering. And though he came toward me, definitely interested in jumping up like he typically used to do, he turned his nose up at those gloves and just began poking around the pine straw instead--searching for nuts he'll no longer be getting from us, of course.

Anyway, I'd put sunflower seeds in his bowl and after a bit (I was watching from patio), he discovered those and went into cage to eat them. I went on inside and I did look outside from time to time and never did see him leave the cage and never saw him on patio either. So the horn wasn't utilized but we'll see. I'm hoping that the complete absence of nuts, the move of the squirrel feeder as far away from the patio as possible and the discontinuation of interaction might do the trick. If not or if I see any other issues, I'll be calling Cochran since I don't know any Ga rehabbers. It breaks my heart but I'll do what I have to. We didn't go through all we went through to save him only to have it turn out horribly for all involved.

[island rehabber]

I have held back on responding because you've gotten such excellent advice from others, scootfoundus. But I must agree with muffinsquirrel, 100%: the best thing in my opinion would be for scoot to go to a rehabber for 'wilding up' and eventual release. So long as he is on your property, I fear he will be caught in the twilight zone between Pet and Wild, and that's a recipe for disaster as you have seen. By letting him go to a new environment -- and where he is completely separate from you -- you give him the best chance of learning to be a wild squirrel. :thumbsup

[squirrel princess]

Maybe that is what we should do. Honestly it's what I first thought of--seeing if a rehabber would take him but then I thought: who would? considering the aggression. I was thinking rehabbers were more baby-raisers, I guess. But perhaps there is an option out there. Donna, I'm not familiar with Cochran Mill but am sure I can locate them and talk to them about this. If I have issues, I'll be sure to PM you for sure.

For an update, I ended up getting an air horn today. At lunch, I went out with my jacket on and with the leather gloves and air horn in pocket. Scoot was far less aggressive today. More like the old guy I knew before. He jumped on inside of the cage by me but he did not care for the smell of those gloves at all. They're plenty used and must be full of smells. Anyway, he cared not for those. I opened the cage and out he came, not like a shot but just meandering. And though he came toward me, definitely interested in jumping up like he typically used to do, he turned his nose up at those gloves and just began poking around the pine straw instead--searching for nuts he'll no longer be getting from us, of course.

Anyway, I'd put sunflower seeds in his bowl and after a bit (I was watching from patio), he discovered those and went into cage to eat them. I went on inside and I did look outside from time to time and never did see him leave the cage and never saw him on patio either. So the horn wasn't utilized but we'll see. I'm hoping that the complete absence of nuts, the move of the squirrel feeder as far away from the patio as possible and the discontinuation of interaction might do the trick. If not or if I see any other issues, I'll be calling Cochran since I don't know any Ga rehabbers. It breaks my heart but I'll do what I have to. We didn't go through all we went through to save him only to have it turn out horribly for all involved.

they have rehabbers on site...that is a lot of what the nature center
does:thumbsup do you know where they hold the Renaissance Festival every year:poke it is in that general location.

[muffinsquirrel]

It breaks my heart but I'll do what I have to. We didn't go through all we went through to save him only to have it turn out horribly for all involved.

I'm sorry - I tried not to write this, but I can't help myself.

Dear, it has ALREADY turned out horribly for all involved. You have an unhappy, confused squirrel, family and friends scared to visit you, and you are being held hostage in your own house unless you go outside in full body armor. If it gets any worse, he will bite someone and you will be facing a lawsuit, medical bills, and very possibly having Scoot euthanized. I don't say this to blame you - you did your very best and you saved his life. All squirrels are different, and with another squirrel this all might have turned out wonderfully. But in this place, at this time, under these circumstances, with this particular squirrel, it just didn't.

It isn't the time to be re-hashing the past, and the 'what if I had..., and the 'what if I hadn't....' and beating yourself up over it all. Now it's time to look at the future - Scoot's future. And 'maybe if I do it this way' or 'maybe if I don't do it that way' is just going to drag the healing process out more and more. Cochran Mill sounds like the ideal solution for you, and, more important, for Scoot. He has already shown you that he wants to be free - now you have to be strong enough to allow it.

muffinsquirrel

[squirrel princess]

http://www.cochranmillnaturecenter.org/

ask for Rick he is the on site rehabber

Sorry you are having to go through this:grouphug

[ScootFoundUs]

That was very well said, MuffinSquirrel. Very direct, to the point but it was a jolt of facts and put that way made a heck of a lot of sense. Yes, it's probably clear as day to the rest of you that this is the right course of action for this guy. But when you're entrenched in the situation, you'd be amazed at how random your thoughts are and how easy it is to think there's another option besides saying goodbye to him permanently.

Island Rehabber's description of the Twilight Zone between Wild and Pet is also incredibly accurate. But God, how I hate it.

I'm going to give Cochran a call and see how to proceed with them.

[Mads]

Anyway, I'd put sunflower seeds in his bowl and after a bit (I was watching from patio), he discovered those and went into cage to eat them. I went on inside and I did look outside from time to time and never did see him leave the cage and never saw him on patio either. So the horn wasn't utilized but we'll see. I'm hoping that the complete absence of nuts, the move of the squirrel feeder as far away from the patio as possible and the discontinuation of interaction might do the trick. If not or if I see any other issues, I'll be calling Cochran since I don't know any Ga rehabbers. It breaks my heart but I'll do what I have to. We didn't go through all we went through to save him only to have it turn out horribly for all involved.[/QUOTE]


Well, this has been a good thread.

I suppose I also need to start paying attention to the fact that I'm still feeding peanuts to the Fab 5 on my porch. At first , it was a successfull release, but I suspect the more I feed the less successful it really is. I know that they approach me now only for peanuts and nothing more. It's not that they understand that I'm MOM to them....I need to read between these lines here and realize that this could be me in a few weeks times 5. Thanks for posting this. :thumbsup I'm going to pay close attention as to how much I should be feeding my squirrels when their natural food is abundant in the yard right now.

[goodmomofmany]

Talons mom here. Well Megan...when I read this my heart sank. I was actually envious of you and your squirrel happenings. Your squirrel took off like mine and came back but your story went in a different direction then mine. You seemed to be having a better time/relationship with your Scoot then I was having with my Talon. My Talon seemed to get wild very quickly. Then I read your post. I too am having similar problems with Talon. I have to admit, I am glad I am not alone. I was feeling like I had done something wrong. Since her release just weeks ago, she seems to get more and more 'wild' and unpredictable every time she visits. I am very hesitant with her now. Like you we had gone away for a week and my daughter was told 'not' to feed her by hand but to just put food out in the cage outside. She said she never saw Talon. Well when we came back, I looked for Talon. She comes out in the early morning or early evening. I saw her and I was excited as I usually am. I called to her and she ran. I went out again later and there she was. I approached her slowly like I always do. I thought I would take her a treat. When I got so close, she reached to me and usually she jumps on my arm and onto my shoulder then I give her the food. Well this time, she just went off on my finger...drew blood. Not bad but still. She went to town-not letting go. I had to flick her off. I dont think she thought my finger was food by accident. I think she was just being aggressive like she started to right before I let her go. Maybe some kind of nature thing kicks in. Just as I let her go, I could no longer get near her cage when she was eating....... but I still like to hand feed her now (thats my time with her)- I just dont approached her with food in my hand anymore. I take each time to see how she is on that day. If she seems very excited/aggetiated, I wait until she tires of being on me with no food. Then when she gets off, I put food near her. But if she seems fine, then I hand feed her. Every day is different. I don’t dare try to touch her when she is eating. I also cant pet her any more like I used to (and I miss that soo much) and when she is eating by me- if I move too close, she makes this grawling sound. It is definitely heart breaking. Not what I imagined. Sometimes she lunges at me and seems starving. After she bit me, she jumped onto the fence and immediately back onto me when I was walking away. I was really taken by surprise. It scared me alittle. I kept walking thinking, what if she bites my face-now she is on me, how do I get her off? Well now Ive told my kids, do not approach her at all and dont try to feed her. I too have been thinking, what is she does this to a neighbor? Its hard, very hard. I contimplated putting her back into her cage....thinking maybe I can retame her and try release again....but I resisted. She belongs outside. I hope I dont have to resort to a bull horn to scare her. I guess if it comes to it, I will have to be happy with just putting food out for her in her old cage and just staying clear of her. Well I will keep everyone posted on my progress. I feel soo bad for you Megan. I know exactly how you are feeling. Its kind of like betrayal isnt it? Email me if you need to.

[JLM27]

This might seem stupid, but I am going to throw it out there anyway. I had a friend who had a child that suddenly stopped eating. The doctor told her that he skipped a developmental stage in which kids play with their food. because she tried to make him have good manners too early. So, at four years old, he had to be allowed to make a mess with his food. It was pretty awful, for sure, a kid that big playing with his food, but it worked. He started eating again.
Now I'm not suggesting Scoot has an eating problem, but the comment about being caught between pet and wild got me thinking: is he having a developmental problem? Would it be possible and advisable to take him back in again, let him calm down, and then maybe try the release again after he calms down and gets a few weeks older? :thinking Actually he started this bad behavior when you went away. (NOT a criticism!, just an observation) Maybe he just got suddenly really insecure and frightened. Like he wasn't finished letting go and suddenly felt lost. God, now I'm a squirrel psychiatrist. I'd better go to bed. I'm sure you guys know best. Just a thought.

[Mads]

Well, I'm not sure that you really could set out a squirrel to live a life of a free squirrel and then bring him back inside to smaller surroundings and get a good result from that. They could actually, I would assume , become quite sick. Perhaps a bigger risk than to try and scare them away from the immedient patio/home, ec.

I don't know, I'm no expert. I take every day as it comes with my Fab 5. My husband does say though that he thinks they are too dependent on me for peanuts. Normally, I never think my husband is right about things, but I'm beginning to think he has a point....!

[squirrel princess]

Who knows what is going on with this little guy. I would not take the chance of him hurting someone just like I do not take the chance allowing Chipper out when people are around. There are stories on here of people feeding their wild back yard squirrels and stories of releases where they have stayed around for years. Someone had mentioned him biting someone and being reported and euthanized I would hate to see that happen. Jackie you have releaed a lot of guys in your back yard have you ever experienced anything like this and if so what did you do:poke

[Sciurus1]

When squirrels are not allowed to wild up in a release cage, they may remain habituated to humans that raised them, and to being fed by them, as to be very aggressive to demand food from them, as well as protect their territory to not allow other humans to not come near where they feed. In order to reestablish for him, a healthy fear of humans and pets, as well as break his habit of relying on humans for food, and guarding the food source, he needs to be put in a large pre-release cage away from his present territory. So the answer your question, of whether to take him in again, the answer is NO, he does NOT need to be taken in again, for that would only perpetuate this problem! The advise IR has shared with you, to give him to a local rehabber to finish up this phase in his rehabiliation, IS the correct way to deal with this issue! I know it is hard, been there done that, but it is what loving is all about, seeking to give to this critter what it needs to survive and do well in it's habitat.

[Sciurus1]

WHOOPS! I just saw thatt this was not the member's thread I thought it was, and so addressed the wrong person. Sorry about that Scootfoundus. I see you had a release cage, but the problem was he didn''t sufficiently wild up, but was fed his favorite foods, and now wants you to continue to do that for him. He is no dummy this one! You need make a decision now, whether to take him to a rehabber, or try to get him to fear you, that is a good healthy fear! To do the latter requires you do NOT feed him anymore goodies, only leave out good food like brocolli and other greens, an perhaps some orange bites, to help with calcium uptake. Put out the food when he is not present, and wash your hands good first, to keep down your scent as well. Also do not go near him, or allow him to come near you either. If he does not change his behavior, he will need to go to a rehabber for an attitude adjustment, so to speak. If that day comes then bate him with goodies, and you likely won't have a problem of getting him in a tender trap. Do not try to catch him in the large cage. If you knew the wildlife folks would release him eventually in a wildlife area, I would take him to one right now, to ensure he has a life free of cars, and best food and logging he can get in the wild!

[adoptedmom]

SFU, I'm not a rehabber or an expert. My only experience is with a girl (Holden) who was handed off to me when she was around 3 weeks old. She's two now and lives indoors, but spends some time outside uncaged each day. She is sometimes, not always, fiercely protective of her nut caches in the house. She has a chair she likes to tuck nuts into, and if I come near that chair while she and nuts are both in it, watch out. She bloodied me twice before I made the connection. If you don't send Scoot somewhere else, I would suggest you search your porch for any hidden stashes and remove them. Scoot will figure out there is nothing there to protect, which may turn your porch into a neutral area once again. I don't know if this will work for you, but it has worked for me at home. Good luck, either way. I know how hard it will be if you decide to send Scoot off for his own well being. It's easy to fall in love with a wild animal and agonizing to have to say goodbye. Bless you for giving him a chance at life.

[Mads]

Brilliant!! ...I think maybe you have given the best advice. Find the stashes. It could very well be all about NUTS!

I know the fab 5 are quite selfish when it comes to their nuts. Certainly makes sense.

[Sciurus1]

When it comes to a squirrel, it is all about THE NUT!!!:crazy

[ScootFoundUs]

Thank you all so much for your thoughts, suggestions, concerns. I know that everyone here means well and wants what is best. An update:

The food on our patio was a colossal error and since removing that, things have returned to status quo (in the short time it's been since anyway, 36 hours). With the hustle and bustle of our house with kids and animals, I never thought the squirrels would come so close. But not only did Scoot come up and then behave crappy when they were removed, but we've seen the wilds come up near the patio too, which floors me b/c they never have before. Clearly, the food was bringing them near. Even today, we saw one guy venture up, sniff around the grass, hang out a bit and then cruise back to the trees (not Scoot but a wild grey).

Since removing that food and discontinuing the nuts altogether (not even in feeders) Scoot has not behaved like he did that time--climbing on screens, etc. He has come to the patio a few times but not as often and we don't go out there when he's near.

I have been outside again with my dogs and saw him in the trees. He has not approached me, nor I him. My husband grilled dinner last night and Scoot spent the entire time up in a nearby tree, just watching him but he didn't come down.

Today, we only saw the wilds out this morning and then Scoot showed up a little later in the morning, sniffing around the pine islands, up on the trees and down again. Checked out the patio briefly and then back to the trees. But no crazy behavior. :thumbsup

Anyway, not very exciting but so many folks took the time to jot thoughts on here or send PMs that I thought the least I could do is provide info on what's gone on lately. :)

[FLUFFYTAILNUT]

WOW..I dont have any advice...
Just wanted to say Im sorry..you are going through this.
I think I would have a complete mental BREAK down if THIS ever happened to me...and BEAN...
I agree with MS...she gave some great advice..and IR....they have great...experience in RELEASING....:thumbsup

I feel for you..and this confusing time in his and your life..:grouphug
:grouphug Rachel n Bean:grouphug

[Sciurus1]

I have been outside again with my dogs and saw him in the trees. He has not approached me, nor I him. My husband grilled dinner last night and Scoot spent the entire time up in a nearby tree, just watching him but he didn't come down

Excellent news!! When the prize is removed they loose interest and look elsewhere. Keep looking for possible places he has stashed nuts, just to make sure they are all gone! The dogs should help to keep him away from you, so continue to take them with you when you go outside. I think maybe you may have turned the tide on this one, time will tell.

[squirrel princess]

Awesome news:thumbsup looks like I will not be needing to meet you at the Nature Center:D

[ScootFoundUs]

More good news!! :multi After the Scoot appeared on the patio this morning and then headed back to trees, we did not see him again all day. By post-dinner, the hub and I were feeling happy yet sad too. Happy he'd done his squirrely thing all day like he should but sad to not see him. You know how it goes. Anyway, it was what needed to happen and we were pleased the absence of nuts and other food near the house seemed to be making an impression and a difference. I'd been outside a couple of times and he never showed up at all, whereas he'd been showing up pretty quickly and consistently after I'd step outside before we left on our trip. I thought this was good.

Then, after dinner, we were unsure about going out to our patio but we like to sit out there and since we hadn't seen him hovering about all day, we thought we'd try it. Out we went and were just sitting, acting normally, talking normally, not trying to hide or anything. I'd put sunflower seeds and other healthy (NON-NUT--LOL) snacks into his bowl in his release cage earlier when he wasn't around. About 15 minutes after we were out there, we noticed one of the wild greys come strolling in looking for late day snacks (remember, feeder was moved well back in our yard, as far from house as we could get). Then who should come floating from limb to limb but the Scoot. We were practically holding our breath to see what he'd do. He saw us on the patio--no doubt about it. Looked at us for awhile but we did nothing. He finally made his way down to his release cage and sat on top of it for about 5 full minutes, just sitting. Not looking at us but just off to the side. He sat so still we weren't sure what the heck he was doing, actually.

After that 5 min, he ran to the front of the cage where it opens, scurried down and into the cage to his food bowl. He sat there and ate and drank water for I bet 20 minutes. We continued to talk and act normally. The dog came out as usual, did his thing and then laid down on porch with us. Scoot continued to eat. When finished, he ran back to top of his cage, walked around there a bit and then up the pine tree. He continued to play in the trees for about 15 more minutes and we finally came on back inside though he was out there still, minding his own business.

I thought that was TREMENDOUS progress. Knew we were there but we did not approach him and he did not approach us. Sad b/c before we'd have been begging him to come over and play. But this is good distance. Tonight shows me he's learning that just because we're outside doesn't mean Come On Over, the Buffet's Open!

I'm trying to keep things realistic but so want to believe Scurius is right--maybe we can turn the tide.

[Mads]

Well, good for you guys. I'm certainly listening very carefully here to this thread. I know that I need to stop feeding peanuts on the deck.....my deck is full of empty shells, all the wild squirrels are also flocking to the deck.....I normally have only seen squirrels on the deck in the dead of the winter when we feed the birds off the deck........the fab 5 come twice a day normally.....all 3 males everyday 2-3 times, but the 2 females visit less, (because they are busy I think making nests).......
I know they don't need all the peanuts they get, and I always buy them other things as well, corn on the cob they love, fruits, ec. But mostly they love peanuts. I also have seen them climb up on the screens and look in the house, and while the dog barks, they all basically just ignore him. I never did handle them after they went into their outdoor cage. I didn't pet them or anything, but I always have feed them things ...

So I'm glad for this thread, because it's certainly given me a heads up on what I should be doing here.
Thanks...

[Sciurus1]

Though this is a two part strategy, Adoptedmom's post held the key to what specifically was driving his behavior, and to remove it, not him from the equatation. Great insight on that one! IF it works, all will be happy, and if not, then there is always plan B, to fall back on. Do not expect perfection, for he may backslide some, but continue to do what you have done so far. Best though to stop the sunflower seeds, for they arent good for him. Offer him greens instead, and only small bits of fruit and other nuts. Keep us posted on how he does.

[Jackie in Tampa]

:grouphug Glad things are better:grouphug

[ScootFoundUs]

Hello, hello! You're so right, Scurius. We had a big time culprit impacting his behavior and I'm glad we took a day to see if removing IT would help before we removed HIM. As with animals in general, I don't expect miracles or perfection. But I thinking adding a little distance still isn't a bad thing b/c he needs to continue the transition to wild beast. And I believe that and the change in food (what it is and where it comes from) will make a big difference in him being able to live out his life around our neck of the 'hood.

MADS, I guess the peanuts might be different for you but from what I experienced and some of the other revelations here, nuts can be a recipe for disaster--turning your docile squirrels into aggressive ones. Even Gamma commented that inside squirrels can get hostile over nuts. Would hate to have that happen to you, especially since yours would be a nightmare times FIVE. :sanp3 But lord knows there are as many squirrel personalities as there are snowflakes in a winter storm, so it may prove different for you. I'd consider abandoning them just in case tho... Better safe than sorry. :)

So we had another nice day today--granted we spent most of it NOT at home but we did start the day with a visit to the patio by the Scoot (ho hum). He'd spotted my husband outside and here he came. But after sniffing around a bit (what?! No nuts?), he took off. We headed to the great <snort!> state of Alabama for work purposes. When we got home about 8:30, I took a chance and went outside.

Sho 'nuff, the turkey scurried down the trees. I hadn't hung out with him in a few days so I went on down to the cage. Now, I'll say I'm a little more leery of those teeth now b/c while I still don't think he bit my mother in law or me to be MEAN, his big boy teeth...well, uh...they HURT. Mean to or not, they smart. So I put on some stylish camo gloves--they're all the rage, really. Actually, considering I just returned from Alabama, I did feel they were appropriate. You know who did NOT think they were appropriate? You guessed it. Took a whiff, and no thank you.

He so wanted to play tho so I sucked it up and took off the gloves. I mean, we'd played a thousand times before without issue. But I did pull my sleeves down over my hands. That worked. He jumped down to my arms, and we played for about 20 minutes. All was like it always was. With the tiny exception that the play-biting during hand-wrestling is quite a bit harder. I was unfazed since my hands were protected. And since I doubt this is something that he'll stop since we've always played like this, I guess hand protection will be mandatory if I see he's in an active mood.

After a short bit, he hopped from my shoulder to a tree and up and away he went. It was near dark so definitely bed time. Which, it is just about for me now too. But I wanted to take a minute to share the love. :-)

Oh, and duly noted on the sunflower seeds. He doesn't get many since what we do put out is demolished by the wilds and I don't see him go into either feeder ever. All he would get of those is what we put into his bowl in his cage, which is limited now b/c we don't want him to see us with food of any sort and anything that we put in there overnight, the wilds would get before he could. As for the greens and whatnot, he stopped eating anything I brought to the release cage months ago so I don't know that he'd take any of that stuff now... But I appreciate the thoughts and concern.

[Jackie in Tampa]

:alright.gif :grouphug

[Sciurus1]

If he is not nesting in the release cage then having been released months ago, remove it. If he does not eat the good food you leave him, leave him nothing! Just so you know, Sunflower seeds can negatively impact liver function, if they have a steady diet of them. It also attracts rats, as my mother found out! Feed the birds Thistle seed, which squirrels don't like! If you want him to be fully wild, you have to have no contact, it is a release afterall you are trying to accomplish. That of course is hard for you no doubt, but still best for him. It is time to let him go it on his own, and put his baby ways behind him.

[goodmomofmany]

Hey Meg,

Well at least you can still physically interact with Scoot. I was really hoping things turned around for you. Maybe distance does make the heart grow fonder? hehe Well I cant actually touch Talon any more and I wont even try again. I have had thought that maybe.....females are differnt then males? She jumps on me and smells my hands but I dont dare try to touch her. When I tried (ever soo slowly) she spun around fast and I can tell, she wanted to bite me.

I am just glad Talon comes to visit me at least every other day (sometimes twice in one day though) so I can see she is alright. I am taking what I can get! Congrats though on your success. Its a much better feeling then the other one isnt it?

[ScootFoundUs]

Hi all. Thought I'd add a note here to say all is still going well with the scooty poo. :thumbsup Thanks for all the folks who PM'd to see if everything is good and I'm pleased to say it is. Back to normal for sure. Still no nuts--thank you very much!--and that seems to do the trick in eliminating his going-bananas behavior.

I did begin to put out some "good" food out again in the off chance that he might be interested again. Without the nut treats and trying to scale back on the seeds too, I resorted back to his original all-time favorite: avocado. And what d'ya know--he loves. I try to put food out where he can't see me doing it but a few times I've gone out with snacks and he's caught me and come down as he usually does to see me. I still just put it in his bowl, no hand feeding, and he's still dynamite around me and my husband. And loving the avocado as well as the cherries (the store-bought variety, much larger than the tiny ones that grow on our backyard trees). I threw in squash and carrots (for color) but I'm not sure if he's eating those. SOMEONE is, or else they've been dropped and we just didn't see where. Anyway. The Scoot is here to stay and we couldn't be happier. Or should I say, we figured out how to behave correctly, thus allowing him to stay in a healthy environment. We aren't smothering him but he does still come around frequently and we let him dictate the interaction. He's happy with it; we're thrilled to still see him around and know he's doing well.

I'm a tish leery about leaving town again, since being gone last time is when it all went awry. :sanp3 But we've got the mother in law all set up with a better plan now: food goes outside after DARK. Or she can wear the stinky gloves and we already know he won't get near her then, even if he is tempted. LOL

[squirrel princess]

Great to know things are still going well.....even though things are under control if I was the mother-in-law I would still be creeped out:wave123 To be so little they sure can be a tornado of meaness if something sets them
off:shakehead

[goodmomofmany]

Glad to hear all is still well with Scoot...I too think my Talon is a permanent guest around my house. I havent had to cut out any food items yet. I still hand feed her- just to interact with her. No one else can.

She is very cautious of the one squirrel visitor we have in our yard. That worries me..I dont want her to be lonely. But when one sees the other, one of them always scoots...

[JLM27]

:thumbsup :thumbsup :wahoo Good job! Great you hung in there to solve the problem. Too often we humans just try to bulldoze other critters rather than negotiating with them. I really admire you.

[Sciurus1]

Give him the best; give him ORGANICS! So glad to hear it is working out so well.



If you want to run with the squirrels you have to think like a squirrel!