new baby, baaad poop

[thundersquirrel]

well, we got our first baby of the year! :wahoo

female foxer, about five weeks old....her first eye opened today, the other will follow soon.

she was found on monday- founder heard her yelp, came and saw that a cat was sitting nearby her. we're not sure if the cat actually got hold of her, she has no puncture wounds.

i wanted to get her baytril because of the cat possibility, but our senior rehabber didn't think it was necessary. :pissed

the first night and morning, my mother wasn't sure she was going to make it. she was lethargic and refusing formula. then yesterday she started perking up and eating regular amounts. :thumbsup

she appears to be a healthy baby (the nice, fat, sturdy kind) but today, while mom was visiting, she had a bad poop. the poop was misshapen, had mucus in it, and slight traces of blood. her anus was a tiny bit bloody after the expulsion. :thinking

the only other concern is that she's twitchy; she can't seem to get comfortable in her box, and seems to jerk around more than usual. we're not sure if the two problems are related.

definitely needing advice here....

[Gabe]

Hmmmm. Could the cat have found it because it had been injured or rejected by mom for medical reasons? Sometimes the cat is just an innocent bystander, wrong place, wrong time.
So, take the cat out of the equation and what do you have?
She was lethargic due to lack of food? Could she have been orphaned for a while and finally come out of the tree?
Could she have internal maggots?
Could it have been a constipated poop, misshapen and dry, that caused a little blood passing?
Is she jerky due to pain? For instance if she was constipated and was having cramps. Check to see if it has improved since the poop.
I have two squirrels right now that are fine but more jerky than others. Some are just like that for some reason, it has gotten better as they mature.
Hope these are some good thought provoking questions for you.:thumbsup

[skye]

I wish you best of luck with your new baby. :)

[thundersquirrel]

thanks, gabe. maggots did cross my mind- but mom didn't find any on her.

she seemed well-fed when we got her, and a great size for her age. i think she's going to be a rather large squirrel. :D

i thought about pain, as well, for the jerking, after she made that poop. i also think she's lonely, perhaps, and is looking for her siblings or mother.

i guess what i really need to know is- will antibiotics help her? is this mucus a sign of infection? would benebac help at all? :dono

[TexanSquirrel]

aww Good luck with her!

[Loopy Squirrel]

If you have a vet to work with I'd have a fecal done. I recently had a baby squirrel w/ similar poop and it turned out the baby had a bad case of clostridium bacteria in the stool. The baby can be vulnerable to the bacteria from all kinds of things like stress, diet, a gut dysfunction, or an underlying virus. We put the baby on cefa drops for seven days. It did clear but it took awhile and it was painful for the baby. This bacteria is dangerous and can kill if let go.

[Gabe]

Thunder Squirrel benebac would be fine to give her. I would watch her stool for another day and see if there are any changes before I would consider starting her on antiobiotics.

[Loopy Squirrel]

I understand your reasoning for not wanting to use antibiotics unless you are sure they are needed, but time is of the essence. Anytime blood is in the stool that is not a very good sign. Do any of these people have vets to work with?

[thundersquirrel]

we do have a great vet, but his bills are paid for by the organization, so we can't get vet help without their permission.

i'm still at school, so i don't know the condition of her latest poops, if any. i'll have to give mom a call.

i think if the mucus and/or blood persists, we'll try some benebac and a homeopathic remedy that mars suggested. i'll keep you guys updated.

[Loopy Squirrel]

I am new to the web site and I have seen several times where people either don't have a vet or the vets charge. Does anyone have a vet that is willing to donate their services for the wildlife. I have made a lot of contacts here in FL inwhich the vets will donate their services such as exams, surgeries, & so forth. They do charge us for medication but it is at cost. They will treat as long as you are a licensed or sub-permitted rehabilitator. Do any of the licensed rehabbers on this site have vets that will donate their time? If it wasn't for the vets donating their time I don't know how we could afford to keep doing the rehab. They have done several very expensive surgeries for us so that we can release these animals back into the wild. Some of them will go so far as to treat our permanents. Are there any vet schools that will assist with the wildlife in your area?

[island rehabber]

TS, sorry to threadjack you for a moment: Loopy, this is an ongoing dilemma for rehabbers all over the country. Florida seems to be much more wildlife-friendly and squirrels are not illegal to have as pets in Florida -- they are illegal in almost every other state. :shakehead In the states where wildlife is illegal to possess, veterinarians are not 'supposed to' charge to treat wildlife. So, what happens is few vets elect to treat wildlife at all and in fact don't even learn about wildlife medicine. Remove the profit motive and you lose most of the vets....

[smoknbunny]

We consider ourselves incredibly lucky that we can find a vet to help our squirrels where I am. It's tough.

[thundersquirrel]

good news. :)

spoke with mom today- our little lady pooped up a storm, and none of them had mucus as far as she could tell. they're also the right color, no blood either.

both eyes are now open and it appears we have a stable baby. :D thank god it wasn't worse! thanks for all the advice.

[smoknbunny]

Hooray!!:crazy Good poop!
Glad to hear things are going well:thumbsup

[Loopy Squirrel]

I'd like to reply to Island Rehabber regarding the vet issue. Florida is not as wildlife friendly as people believe. The vets here are not obligated to charge or not charge based on whether the animal is legal or not. They can do whatever they want. I have had many who turned me away at first. All native wildlife is protected in FL, but squirrels are listed in the "iffy" category. When you read the permitting information the states list several animals that you do not need a permit for. For example, parakeets, canaries, hampster, gerbils, squirrels, ect.. The problem is, what squirrels are they talking about? Are they talking about ones like the Richardson ground squirrel that you can purchase in the pet store? They sell all kinds of animals including chipmunks. I
have asked many Fish & Game officers about this issue and you can get several different answers. The most common responce is, if it came from the wild then it is protected and it must be returned to the wild. If you find a wild squirrel, fox, grey , or flying it is supposed to be in the care of a licensed wildlife rehabilitator. There are officers including our main office in Tallahassee who will tell you the opposite. If they can't get it right how is the public, let alone the vets, going to know what is legal and illegal. I wish that the state would make it illegal because I get more squirrels from the public that have done more harm than good. There are a lot of caring people in this world but caring doesn't always equal knowledgeable. I had to sit in the vets office trying to talk a person into relinquishing a squirrel that was dying of calcium deficiency seizures because they screwed up, but were willing to pay for the animals treatment. Even though they did the damage they still wouldn't give the squirrel up. The vet and I both begged these people to give her up but the law wasn't on our side. The squirrel died an hour later and they still had to pay the vet bill. They were well meaning people but not educated in how to care for a wild animal. Isn't that what all this time and work that we do is for? If everyone was meant to do this than why do we have to have state licenses? Why do we have to train for more than 1000 hours along side another licensed rehabber? Why do we have to have our homes open to state inspections? That is like saying o.k. today I think I am going to practice medicine, go out and harm the public and there won't be any consequences. Don't you think that all the doctors who have spent thousands of dollars and thousands of hours training wouldn't be angry? If you really want to help then educate yourselves. Do the right thing and get educated, then get the proper credentials....put in the time.

[smoknbunny]

There is a lot of truth in what you are saying LS, BUT in some areas certain squirrels are considered an invasive species and if they are taken to a rehabber they are destroyed. And anyone becoming a rehabber for the love of squirrels would be faced with having to kill something they love. As you say, the homes are open to inspection and if a licensed rehabber was found to have the wrong kind of squirrel then the squirrels are taken and killed anyway and my guess is the license is yanked.

[Loopy Squirrel]

Why couldn't those animals be given to people who want them as pets? We are not supposed to release Musckovy ducks here but there are many rehabbers including myself, who still take them in and do not destroy them. We are allowed to find permanent non releaseable homes for them if they cannot be released. Are their laws that strict that they wouldn't allow this? I also wanted to say two more things that I forgot. One is that I take many animals from the vet clinics that are brought in from the public, so it is a give and take relationship with my vets. The other point is if the public wants squirrels as pets we get many nonreleaseable permanently impaired squirrels that need loving homes. We are allowed to transfer nonreleaseable animals to people who are willing to get the appropriate education, caging, and permitting for these animals, including raccoons within our state. If this is the case regarding the strictness of laws in other states than maybe FL is more wildlife friendly than others. That is Fish & Game though, not necessarily veterinarians.

[Loopy Squirrel]

p.s. Aside from everything else I am glad to hear that the baby is pooping better.

[thundersquirrel]

while we're off-topic, i have even more good news!

mom just picked up another squirrel, only a little younger than the one we have. she'll get a buddy now! :D