What we feed our babies vs. their blood levels

[Sara in NW MS]

I've always been a stickler when it comes to feeding my squirrels right. I stick to the diet that's posted on here and I don't give them anything I'm not supposed to. After seeing Tumbleweed's chem results, I'm perplexed and confused on what he should be getting.

These are high: Protein, phosphorus, and potassium

These are low: ALT (SGPT) and glucose

I take 1 HHB (adult), 2 Mazuri blocks, and 5 Oxbow pieces and blend them up and then soak the powder to form a paste. This is split into thirds and given in each meal of the day.

I take a "serving" of the block paste and add 2 tsp of premixed formula and mix them up real well. Then I add his veggies to that. We mix it up and he eats it just fine. Sometimes he will get 3ml of apple, other times its another fruit.

His veggies are a mix of fresh: brussels sprouts, cabbage, carrot, mushroom slices, bok choy, broccoli. These are steamed then dropped in the blender with the remaining water and blended. I then place them in ice cube trays until they are frozen and can be placed in freezer bags. He likes this combination of veggies the most but I make him others also. These are all on the list under category 1 and 2.

He gets other veggies too, just not on a daily basis. Those are: sweet potatoes, squash, kale, green beans, sugar snap peas. He gets avocado twice a week with calcium carbonate sprinkled on it.

When he wasn't doing well a while back, we gave him yogurt and sometimes we would add banana. He was also on the ultra boost at that time. That's been so long ago, it shouldn't be showing up on his blood work now. I'm just trying to figure out what can be changed to get his levels back to where they should be.

I've attached his results so you can see what I'm talking about.

[astra]

sorry, don't have time for a long post, but what immediately stands out - too much block.

While there may be different opinions, generally, 2 HHBs are sufficient to cover all "block" needs for a squirrel.
But with 2 Mazuri and 5 Oxbow = sounds like too much block esp. for someone who already gets 1 HHB.
Too much block may result in too much protein.
This amount of block may be especially "too much" for little TW whose daily energy expenditure is rather minimal compared, say, to active releases and/or even active NRs.
So, if there is a way, it might be better to limit his block to 2 HHBs per day.

As for veggies - it's hard to overdo on veggies. On top of the varying absorption rates which will include the availability of the nutrients in the veggies + the level of absorption in his GIT.

Since he is a compromised little guy, it is possible that his overall metabolism may be somewhat different.
Also, since he's been on so many meds and so often, his GI may be not as strong which, again, will affect absorption of nutrients.

Others will pitch in, but one thing, imo, for certain - no need for all that extra block if he can get 2 HHBs daily.

PS yogurt is always good, esp. for someone who is constantly on meds.

[Sara in NW MS]

Thank you Astra. I appreciate the advice. I was under the impression we could give our squirrels mazuri blocks along with their veggies as "filler". I know I've seen posts since I've been a member where people give their kids an hhb in the morning then give mazuri blocks for them to munch on during the day. I personally don't like using the mazuri because they look like sawdust that's been compressed. Lol. Ok, so just 2 hhb and no other block? He really loves the oxbow pieces though.

What about his glucose levels? He gets fruit every day and watermelon juice.

[astra]

yes, some people give extra commercial block in addition to HHBs, but it is unnecessary. It's not a bad thing in itself, and many squirrels seem to be doing fine with extra commercial block, but like I said - it is unnecessary. Since a lot may be individual, perhaps, it is ok for some sqs, but for those more sensitive (due to various reasons) it may not be as innocuous.
Besides, tOo much of a good thing can backfire.

But yes, 2 HHBs is all the block an average grey squirrel needs, provided that they are eaten and not stashed away, but since you prepare special ways for him to eat the block, you've got that covered.
Even if sometimes HHBs get crumbled a lot, it is possible to collect the crumbs (even if not all) and make a boo-ball type of thing of them.
Also, Henrys confirmed that 2 HHBs cover all basic vit-mineral needs of an average grey.
He still needs the veggies etc. because nutrients aren't limited to vit-minerals: there are lots of phytonutrients, trace minerals and so on and so forth that cannot be replicated in a form of a pill. Therefore, the combination of HHBs and whatever veggies and stuff from the diet he will eat = best.
If he likes Oxbow pieces - maybe, use them as treats, one piece a day, or every other day. If he really likes them - maybe, a piece a day will be ok.

Commercial block is meant to be fed all day long "type of thing," because it is meant to be pretty much all commercial rats eat (in labs and such). But HHBs are concentrated and formulated to be fed 2 per day. So, combining HHBs with commercial block is unnecessary.

as for his glucose levels and fruit... hmmm...
from what I learned, glucose levels do not always depend on sugar one consumes - that's often secondary. Usually, if glucose metabolism becomes off, that's when natural fruit consumption may affect it (as in diabetic people and/or other metabolic problems), but in and of itself the consumption of natural fruit doesn't usually affect glucose levels adversely.

I am saying "natural fruit" and not just sugar, because there is a huge difference. IN more simple terms, fruit sugar is a bit more complex, and it comes with all sorts of other nutrients in fruit (like the phytonutrients I mentioned above) that prevent this fruit sugar from becoming as harmful as processed sugar.
Also, this fruit sugar/complex carbs are important, because they are necessary for healthy brain function.

As for TW... watermelon is very healthful, and if he gets a piece of fruit, then technically that should not be a problem.
But just in case, maybe, you could say, limit/reduce/eliminate fruit completely for a few weeks and then have blood done again, if that could be possible - to check his glucose levels to see if his fruit consumption affects them.
I don't know if more blood tests are possible, will they be too taxing on his little system?... if yes, then - don't do them.
But if it could be done, it is worth trying.

My guess would be that perhaps due to his disability, certain metabolic processes (like glucose metabolism) may be off. But it's hard to tell without extensive tests and such.
But it may not be possible.
So, perhaps, if you could cut fruit and then check his blood in a month or so - may be worth trying.
If not - maybe, make the fruit piece smaller (I don't know how small it is , but smaller ).
If a piece of fruit is a treat for him, I wouldn't cut it out completely - there aren't a lot of "fun" things in his life, so a fruity treat may be important for him.

Sorry, got to run (sorry if I am being repetitive - trying to rush here ).

Thank you Astra. I appreciate the advice. I was under the impression we could give our squirrels mazuri blocks along with their veggies as "filler". I know I've seen posts since I've been a member where people give their kids an hhb in the morning then give mazuri blocks for them to munch on during the day. I personally don't like using the mazuri because they look like sawdust that's been compressed. Lol. Ok, so just 2 hhb and no other block? He really loves the oxbow pieces though.

What about his glucose levels? He gets fruit every day and watermelon juice.

[astra]

thinking, maybe, keep his treats - a piece of Oxbow and a small piece of fruit. Treats are important to him. And if there are metabolic issues, a little piece of fruit and/or a piece of Oxbow may not change much, but at least - he will have something to enjoy.

PS watermelon is "sweeter" than some other types of fruit. But it's the good type of "sweet," besides, watermelon is very good for kidneys. But if his glucose metabolism is off, indeed, his glucose levels may be more sensitive to watermelon. So... again, if more blood tests isn't a good idea, maybe every other day of juice? Or daily, but less?... hard to suggest anything specific not knowing why and if watermelon has anything to do with it

[HRT4SQRLS]

These are high: Protein, phosphorus, and potassium

These are low: ALT (SGPT) and glucose


I've attached his results so you can see what I'm talking about.

Sara, I would not be concerned about these values. The 3 values that are high are elevated due to the hemolysed blood. It was stated that they almost gave up getting blood from TW. The blood they did get, finally, was hemolysed. This is VERY common for a traumatic venipuncture. At the bottom of the report it states the blood had 1+ hemolysis. Even slightly hemolysed samples can effect certain analytes, especially the potassium.

Glucose levels are decreased by hemolysis.

Attachment 275794

[Sara in NW MS]

Thank you! I was just really worried that he wasn't getting the right stuff. It had me a little bit scared since I've always been so strict with his diet.
One less thing to worry about. Whew! Thank you again.

[SammysMom]

I sure hope T'weed gets on the right track. He doesn't get as much exercise as other squirrels because of his issues. Maybe that is part of it? I am curious what blood levels they are using as a base. I would LOVE to have those levels if you have them.

[Garden71]

here are a couple of blood tests from Nugget and Terry.
We were told that Nugget has very high levels of ALP. the vet said it was his liver.

[Squarl]

Talk to your doctor about insuloma (tumors of the pancreas) if he's had multiple seizures.

If so, consider a doing a fasting blood glucose check ran in house.

I'm not familiar with squirrel or wild life medicine... And I'm not sure if squirrels get this either.

I'm a RVT and I work with small animal and exotics. Seizures could be related to low sugar. If the sugar is low on a fasting sample it's pretty much how it's diagnosed.

The low glucose and other things could just be from having a bad sample or don't matter much because the other values are normal. The print out looks like it was ran at a outside lab (Maybe clinalab?), so the samples probably sat around all day too.

For example, the total protein is just the high end of normal, although the phosphorous is kinda high, but then again all the other kidney values are good...

Although, the high alkphose is kinda concerning, although the other liver enzyme looks good.

Prednisone and other medications elevates liver enzymes as well. It could just be that if he's on medication.

I looked at a few of tumbleweeds post but am not too familiar with his issues and story. When I originally started to reply I thought he was young and healthy LoL... But then I recognized his name and recalled seeing his post before

[Sara in NW MS]

I'm a little concerned tonight. I feed TW very well and he's eating like a horse right now but he's losing weight. I did alter what I was feeding him just a tad since he had his blood work. He's getting lots of green veggies and I incorporate good carbs and sugars. I stopped giving him the rodent block and he's only getting HHB's right now with his diluted formula. The vet recommended diluting the formula to help lower his protein consumption.
Here's the problem... He was 476g when he saw the vet. He didn't eat well for a week after that and dropped to 454g. Tonight he is 402g! He acts like he's starving every time he eats now and he's gone from eating three really good meals a day to four or five meals.
Should I stop diluting his formula or add some rodent block back into his diet? The formula is being mixed 3/1 right now.

[Spanky]

I'm a little concerned tonight. I feed TW very well and he's eating like a horse right now but he's losing weight. I did alter what I was feeding him just a tad since he had his blood work. He's getting lots of green veggies and I incorporate good carbs and sugars. I stopped giving him the rodent block and he's only getting HHB's right now with his diluted formula. The vet recommended diluting the formula to help lower his protein consumption.
Here's the problem... He was 476g when he saw the vet. He didn't eat well for a week after that and dropped to 454g. Tonight he is 402g! He acts like he's starving every time he eats now and he's gone from eating three really good meals a day to four or five meals.
Should I stop diluting his formula or add some rodent block back into his diet? The formula is being mixed 3/1 right now.

Given that HRT4SQRLS said not to worry about the elevated protein, I would go back to full strength formula. Does he like Avocado? If so I would include that too.

[Sara in NW MS]

I thought about adding avocado but if his phosphorus was high, am I going to make it worse? I'll give him rodent block and stop diluting his formula. Thank you!
I remember HRT saying not to worry about the protein now. I just stooped with the mazuri this past weekend. Still trying to figure out why he's lost so much weight.

7/15 he was 476g
7/21 he was 454g
8/2 he is 402g

[Spanky]

Sara, I would not be concerned about these values. The 3 values that are high are elevated due to the hemolysed blood.

Just a reminder!