Jasper is free...

[Mommaluvy]

I know!! Thank you!! Today he's hanging around his cage like he wasn't missing for almost 24 hours. Maybe it wasn't that long, it felt like a week! There's definitely a female hanging around the cage, and she has one juvie with her. Jasper seems both fascinated and intimidated by them. Every time she gets a little too close he goes zooming into his cage and disappears into his nest box. Wuss! She's about 1/2 his size and doesn't seem at all aggressive... But this is his first real exposure to other squirrels.

A question, now that he's in the yard and digging little holes next to the cage my cats have become VERY interested in him. Does anyone have advice on how to protect him, other than locking up the cats? Right now they are locked in my bedroom because my female was stalking him. The cats have never caught any sort of mammal or bird, just lots and lots of reptiles-- lizards, skinks and snakes. But he's making himself a really easy target, and he's not used to needing to watch his back because the cage has always protected him. Any words of wisdom appreciated!

Sadly I too have out door kitties. I kept mine locked up for several weeks in the garage ... to give my releases a head start. 3 were born in my neighborhood and would have encountered them eventually op even if I had never met the squees.

They are both older cats. One had a psychological disorder and the vet actually told me to put her outside ( both are neutered ). The other was already out. Vet was right . It fixed her problem .... But ... Out door kitties are not good for the wildlife environment . They will be the last .

[Cesta]

DOn't let the cats anywhere near him until he has wilded up sufficiently and stays up in the trees, away from them. He needs to learn to listen to other squirrels and birds' alarm calls when the cats are out and about. DON'T ever trust a cat....I learned that lesson horribly when I rehabbed deer mice. A lazy old male cat who never raised his paw to anyone turned into a killing machine at the speed of light when a mouse escaped the container -- a mouse I had slaved over, for weeks, to rescue!

Oh, that's an awful story. I'm so sorry! I don't trust my cats with the squirrels at all. The wilds are too quick for them but Jasper is, like you said, still kinda clueless. Plus he's been defending his cage from the cats for months while he was on the patio (there was no way to separate them) so I think HE thinks they're afraid of him.

I wish I had a picture of the tree/ cage to show. I may see if I can get my husband to put some sort of open-topped fencing/ chicken wire around the whole thing so we'll have a totally safe release area.

[Cesta]

Sadly I too have out door kitties. I kept mine locked up for several weeks in the garage ... to give my releases a head start. 3 were born in my neighborhood and would have encountered them eventually op even if I had never met the squees.

They are both older cats. One had a psychological disorder and the vet actually told me to put her outside ( both are neutered ). The other was already out. Vet was right . It fixed her problem .... But ... Out door kitties are not good for the wildlife environment . They will be the last .

I have struggled with this issue for many years. Our first cat came to us shortly after we were married and were living just off campus (we were still in college). He literally ran in our door, he was just an 8 week old baby. He desperately wanted to play outside. I'd never owned a cat before, but my husband had grown up with tons of them and they were always indoor/ outdoor. So we kept him in until he had all his shots and then gradually started letting him out. We moved to a house, got a cat door, and he was an indoor/outdoor cat. He killed stuff-- mostly lizards and citrus rats. Never a squirrel.

When he passed away (16 years later) we got two more cats, and they just hunt small reptiles, mostly Cuban lizards, which are an invasive species anyway. We lock them up at night to protect them. I understand the danger to birds and squirrels and flyers and everything, but with the dogs having open access to doggy doors it would be almost impossible for me to keep the cats in. And my hubs loves his cats. They are fixed and stay in our large yard, and I try to be a responsible pet owner and keep an eye on them. It's hard-- they are natural predators, and they aren't meant to live indoors full time (IMHO).

So we'll do our best to protect Jasper and all future releases. We'll probably have to put up some kind of protection around the cage and the tree the cage is against. Or the cats will have to stay in until, as IR said, the squirrels "wild up". They're locked in my bedroom now, and they're PO'd.

[pjjere]

We enclosed our release cage area with welded wire (even the top) in order to keep the cats and coons away. If you use the right size wire squirrels and small birds can easily fit through. We leave one corner open so we can access the area and just secure it with snap hooks when we're done. This way there is always a safe place for the squirrels to go.They can also access the cage through a small opening once they slip through the wire. It is at least coon and cat proof.

[Mommaluvy]

It's hard-- they are natural predators, and they aren't meant to live indoors full time (IMHO).

So we'll do our best to protect Jasper and all future releases. We'll probably have to put up some kind of protection around the cage and the tree the cage is against. Or the cats will have to stay in until, as IR said, the squirrels "wild up". They're locked in my bedroom now, and they're PO'd.

Yes.. that was kinda what my vet said. Not meant to be inside all day. Which I get.. but then I found the issue with the wildlife. I had to stop feeding birds in my front yard at least cause they were stalking the birds. And they used to stalk squirrels. So that is why I say they will be MY last kitties.

I have chain link fence 8 foot that I am putting around my release cage. Actually I am looking at an off site release area ATM but have not figured out how to do that with out problems. I don't want to do hard releases on the finders property etc.. plus they may not be cat free either.... but .. no matter what area you have.. if your dumping 8- 30 squirrels ever year your going to run into food and territory issues and many other things. So Personally I would like to work with some places in my area to do a rotation. Save my land for special conditional releases. Or what not.

[TubeDriver]

I don't have an easy answer, my belief is that your cats will kill Jasper if he does not wild up quickly.


It sounds like Jasper and your cats are going to meet each other at some point? Does it make sense to plan this meet so that you can supervise and make sure Jasper runs? That way you can intervene. Could a person play a recording of an alarm and run around to simulate an attack which would probably cause Jasper to head for the trees (or his cage)? Just throwing some idea out there, I hope others here with more experience will chime in.


If Jasper is not afraid of cats and you have two cats roaming in the yard, it is not going to be a surprise at what will happen. It will be a tragedy because you have done such a great job raising and releasing him. Sorry to be such a worrier but I want this thread to continue to be such a happy one!

[Cesta]

We enclosed our release cage area with welded wire (even the top) in order to keep the cats and coons away. If you use the right size wire squirrels and small birds can easily fit through. We leave one corner open so we can access the area and just secure it with snap hooks when we're done. This way there is always a safe place for the squirrels to go.They can also access the cage through a small opening once they slip through the wire. It is at least coon and cat proof.

Could you possibly share a picture of your release area set up? That might really help me. Thanks!

[Cesta]

I don't have an easy answer, my belief is that your cats will kill Jasper if he does not wild up quickly.


It sounds like Jasper and your cats are going to meet each other at some point? Does it make sense to plan this meet so that you can supervise and make sure Jasper runs? That way you can intervene. Could a person play a recording of an alarm and run around to simulate an attack which would probably cause Jasper to head for the trees (or his cage)? Just throwing some idea out there, I hope others here with more experience will chime in.


If Jasper is not afraid of cats and you have two cats roaming in the yard, it is not going to be a surprise at what will happen. It will be a tragedy because you have done such a great job raising and releasing him. Sorry to be such a worrier but I want this thread to continue to be such a happy one!

I have been pondering this since I read your reply, TubeDriver. It's hard to explain Jasper's attitude. He will run if chased, but he seems to think he's some sort of Rottweiler squirrel. (Don't get me wrong, I'm quite fond of Rottie's, but my squirrel needs to understand he weighs about a pound). I think I trained him to believe he was the big guy in charge when I made all the animals stay away from his cage, trying to keep separation between him and the pets. It was impossible to actually keep that separation, but I was able to train the cats and dogs to leave his cage alone. So he thinks he's hot stuff, and he's extremely possessive of his cage.

I've spent hours in the back yard this past week spraying the cats and dogs with the hose when they get too close to his cage. He's burying nuts, and the dogs are going around behind and picking them up, and he's getting seriously TICKED. At one point, when he was outside with my daughter and our puppies (3 months old), he jumped on the puppy's back because she wouldn't go away. The puppy screamed and ran and I'm sure we could have made a lot of money on AFV. My husband thinks I should spray Jasper because he's the one who needs to learn to run (like you said)-- but I'm afraid if I do that he'll never come back down to his cage.

He's spending more and more time in the trees but still comes down before dusk to eat and he sleeps in his cage every night (except the first night, little meanie.) He has a little girlfriend who has an approximately 12 week old juvenile with her, and he willingly shares his food with them. He is starting to 'wild up' and I hope we can get through this transition phase without any injuries. In the meantime, I'll continue to keep a close eye on everyone and keep my garden hose ready.

I'm already planning a different release spot, not in the middle of the back yard, for the next guys to go out to the trees. The good news is I think I've successfully scared my cats away from his cage, and him. They seriously hate being blasted with water.

[TubeDriver]

I hope some more knowledgable people will chime up here? I think Jasper will eventually learn to run from dogs and cats as he wilds up but my fear is that he will hesitate or stand his ground for a bit when a cat is stalking him and that will be the end of Jasper. I don't know what to tell you? But that description of Jasper jumping on a dogs back to defend his nuts almost makes me think he is a NR squirrel now. I am going to alert some experienced members here about this thread to see what they think about all this.

I have been pondering this since I read your reply, TubeDriver. It's hard to explain Jasper's attitude. He will run if chased, but he seems to think he's some sort of Rottweiler squirrel. (Don't get me wrong, I'm quite fond of Rottie's, but my squirrel needs to understand he weighs about a pound). I think I trained him to believe he was the big guy in charge when I made all the animals stay away from his cage, trying to keep separation between him and the pets. It was impossible to actually keep that separation, but I was able to train the cats and dogs to leave his cage alone. So he thinks he's hot stuff, and he's extremely possessive of his cage.

I've spent hours in the back yard this past week spraying the cats and dogs with the hose when they get too close to his cage. He's burying nuts, and the dogs are going around behind and picking them up, and he's getting seriously TICKED. At one point, when he was outside with my daughter and our puppies (3 months old), he jumped on the puppy's back because she wouldn't go away. The puppy screamed and ran and I'm sure we could have made a lot of money on AFV. My husband thinks I should spray Jasper because he's the one who needs to learn to run (like you said)-- but I'm afraid if I do that he'll never come back down to his cage.

He's spending more and more time in the trees but still comes down before dusk to eat and he sleeps in his cage every night (except the first night, little meanie.) He has a little girlfriend who has an approximately 12 week old juvenile with her, and he willingly shares his food with them. He is starting to 'wild up' and I hope we can get through this transition phase without any injuries. In the meantime, I'll continue to keep a close eye on everyone and keep my garden hose ready.

I'm already planning a different release spot, not in the middle of the back yard, for the next guys to go out to the trees. The good news is I think I've successfully scared my cats away from his cage, and him. They seriously hate being blasted with water.

[Cesta]

Um, OK, I have sort of a sensitive question...

Jasper hit puberty quite a while ago and it was pretty noticeable to everyone when his testicles suddenly appeared. (Sorry Jazz Momma's telling private stories about your privates!!)

BUT... now that he's out in the trees and wild and free and doing God only knows what (I DON'T WANT TO KNOW!!) they seem to have GROWN. A LOT. Is this normal? It almost looks... uncomfortable? I can try to get a picture... just want to make sure I'm not missing some kind of abnormal growth. It seems to have happened in the week or so he's been out of the cage.

[TubeDriver]

Males during mating season get pretty large testicles. They can be almost the size of a walnut in shell!

Um, OK, I have sort of a sensitive question...

Jasper hit puberty quite a while ago and it was pretty noticeable to everyone when his testicles suddenly appeared. (Sorry Jazz Momma's telling private stories about your privates!!)

BUT... now that he's out in the trees and wild and free and doing God only knows what (I DON'T WANT TO KNOW!!) they seem to have GROWN. A LOT. Is this normal? It almost looks... uncomfortable? I can try to get a picture... just want to make sure I'm not missing some kind of abnormal growth. It seems to have happened in the week or so he's been out of the cage.

[Bravo]

Hi Cesta,

Sorry, no related experience but I would agree with TD. In my opinion this is becomes a non-releasable issue.

As for the equipment, entirely normal, and will probably recede once the mating/baby season is over.

[Cesta]

I hope some more knowledgable people will chime up here? I think Jasper will eventually learn to run from dogs and cats as he wilds up but my fear is that he will hesitate or stand his ground for a bit when a cat is stalking him and that will be the end of Jasper. I don't know what to tell you? But that description of Jasper jumping on a dogs back to defend his nuts almost makes me think he is a NR squirrel now. I am going to alert some experienced members here about this thread to see what they think about all this.

Ugh, I know what you mean but I'd hate to steal his freedom and make him a NR. He loves it outside. You don't know how hard it was for me to let him out in the first place!

I know he would run from unfamiliar cats and dogs, he's suspicious of people he doesn't know, too-- but these are animals he knows as 'part of the family'. He's been with us for 9 months because he over-wintered. I accidentally trained him to think he was the boss of everyone by always shooing them away from his cage, and then he thought he chased them off. The puppy he jumped on has been driving him bonkers since she got here, and honestly, she's too small to hurt him and I think he knows that. He's much more wary of the cats. The problem is he reacts to movement-- he runs when chased-- and cats are stalkers. I appreciate advice from anyone who's been in this type of situation. He's locked in his cage today because of bad weather so I'll just wait and see if others have some good advice. Thanks so much for your help.

[Cesta]

Males during mating season get pretty large testicles. They can be almost the size of a walnut in shell!

That is EXACTLY how I was going to describe it but didn't want to seem like I was exaggerating. I'm not. They're ginormous.

[Nancy in New York]

Is there any other place that you can release Jasper? I'm sure you've already thought of that prospect,
but this is scary that he jumps on the puppy and basically has no fear.
Perhaps is he wasn't alone, he would learn from the other squirrels.
Do you have a friend that has another that he could be released with.
Not in the same cage, ideally another release cage.
He would/could learn from the warnings from another squirrel.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Cesta, I think you would be hard pressed to make Jasper a non-release at this point. He has already experienced freedom in the trees and I don't think you can turn that clock back. He might do OK for a few days but in the long term I believe he would be resentful.
At this time he is being driven by those enormous gonads.

I know your dogs are indoor dogs so I don't think the threat is from them. When they go out you can always monitor the situation. The cats are a different story. You won't be able to alter the 'predator response' in the cats. One thing that I would recommend is to put collars on the cats with bells on them. The sound of the bell will alert Jasper to the cats presence. The problem still exists if Jasper's response to a predator is inappropriate.

I have a question. What do the wilds squirrels do when they see the cats? Do they ignore them or do they start alarming? Occasionally, I see a feral cat on my property. The wild squirrels go NUTS. Every squirrel around starts barking and alarming. They never even react if a hawk lands in the tree but CATS... they freak out. It is SO predictive that if the wild squirrels here start alarming, I know they see a cat, even if I don't. If your squirrels alarm, there might be the possibility that Jasper could learn from them about dangers.

If I can help you in any way, I'm here. By the way, I'm releasing the girls (Sunny and Cheri) on Monday. I'm off M-W so I can keep an eye on them.

[TubeDriver]

You make some very good points, I just worry that it will only take that one time when Jasper does not run or hesitates and the cats get to him.

Cesta, I think you would be hard pressed to make Jasper a non-release at this point. He has already experienced freedom in the trees and I don't think you can turn that clock back. He might do OK for a few days but in the long term I believe he would be resentful.
At this time he is being driven by those enormous gonads.

I know your dogs are indoor dogs so I don't think the threat is from them. When they go out you can always monitor the situation. The cats are a different story. You won't be able to alter the 'predator response' in the cats. One thing that I would recommend is to put collars on the cats with bells on them. The sound of the bell will alert Jasper to the cats presence. The problem still exists if Jasper's response to a predator is inappropriate.

I have a question. What do the wilds squirrels do when they see the cats? Do they ignore them or do they start alarming? Occasionally, I see a feral cat on my property. The wild squirrels go NUTS. Every squirrel around starts barking and alarming. They never even react if a hawk lands in the tree but CATS... they freak out. It is SO predictive that if the wild squirrels here start alarming, I know they see a cat, even if I don't. If your squirrels alarm, there might be the possibility that Jasper could learn from them about dangers.

If I can help you in any way, I'm here. By the way, I'm releasing the girls (Sunny and Cheri) on Monday. I'm off M-W so I can keep an eye on them.

[Cesta]

Is there any other place that you can release Jasper? I'm sure you've already thought of that prospect,
but this is scary that he jumps on the puppy and basically has no fear.
Perhaps is he wasn't alone, he would learn from the other squirrels.
Do you have a friend that has another that he could be released with.
Not in the same cage, ideally another release cage.
He would/could learn from the warnings from another squirrel.

I have thought of other places I could release Jasper, but nothing I feel a peace about. If I had to send him anywhere, I'd probably beg H4S to take him and pay her to feed him, etc, because he's far from actually leaving his cage. But I'd feel like I was abandoning him, it would be like dropping one of my dogs off and driving away. I'm not sure I can do it.

I think he's a little (actually a lot) overwhelmed-- by the great outdoors, by his giant hormones, by the other squirrels, the freedom, all the new choices he can make now. He's torn between wanting to be with me and the safety of his 'house' and the freedom and fun of the trees.

He is spending time with the yard squirrels, and strangely they aren't afraid of our cats/ dogs either. They rarely alarm call, and usually when they do I can't figure out what they see/ hear. I think they're used to the 'normal' animals/ people in our yard too. At first they fussed at the puppies but now they ignore them. I was counting on them to teach Jasper but they aren't doing squat. At least they stop and flatten against the trees when they hear a hawk. That's something, I guess. The hawks are what scare me, I've watched them snatch birds from my trees and there's NOTHING I can do about them.

For now, I'm going to keep going as we are and pray for the best. I will put bells on the cats, a great suggestion by H4S. They are indoor/ outdoor and spend a lot of time inside. The dogs rarely go outside without a person with them. We have doggie doors but they're still house training and are very closely monitored. I'll continue to hose down anyone who gets too close, which scares everyone, including Jasper. I'm still working on my husband, trying to convince him to build an open-topped enclosure around the whole cage/ tree so that Jasper will be safe on the ground around his cage. I'm open to any other suggestions, but I agree with H4S, I don't think he can go back in the cage as a NR. It would be cruel.

[HRT4SQRLS]

Cesta, Jasper could always come here for release. I hope you know that ... but I know that's not what you want.

I did think of one more thing. I think I would buy a Super Soaker Water gun from WalMart. Those things will shoot a stream of water 20-30 feet depending on which kind you find. I think this would work better than the water hose. IF Jasper sees the cat near the ground or is in close proximity I would soak him AND the cat. The hose, he would clearly associate with you. The stream from the SS water gun would be on him before he knows it and he HOPEFULLY would associate the bath with the cat. I don't know if it would work but it's worth a try. I believe you are more likely to alter his behavior than the cats. Cats are hunters, no changing that.

Have you hung a nest box in a tree? The sooner he leaves the RC completely, the better. Funny thing though, none of my squirrels are using nest boxes now. It is just too hot. When the temps are in the 80's like they have been they prefer living in trees. They made dreys.
We'll figure this out but in the mean time I would monitor things closely when the cats are out.

[Cesta]

Cesta, Jasper could always come here for release. I hope you know that ... but I know that's not what you want.

I did think of one more thing. I think I would buy a Super Soaker Water gun from WalMart. Those things will shoot a stream of water 20-30 feet depending on which kind you find. I think this would work better than the water hose. IF Jasper sees the cat near the ground or is in close proximity I would soak him AND the cat. The hose, he would clearly associate with you. The stream from the SS water gun would be on him before he knows it and he HOPEFULLY would associate the bath with the cat. I don't know if it would work but it's worth a try. I believe you are more likely to alter his behavior than the cats. Cats are hunters, no changing that.

Have you hung a nest box in a tree? The sooner he leaves the RC completely, the better. Funny thing though, none of my squirrels are using nest boxes now. It is just too hot. When the temps are in the 80's like they have been they prefer living in trees. They made dreys.
We'll figure this out but in the mean time I would monitor things closely when the cats are out.

Thanks, H4S-- if I really can't make it work here, I will contact you and take you up on your kind offer. I know he'd be safe with you. I like the idea of a Super Soaker. I'll go get one 2morrow. Easier from a distance than the hose, too. I agree he's easier to 'train' than the cats although they are losing interest in him every day. They detest the hose.

Yes, we have put a nest box in his tree, but I don't think it's high enough. My husband's good at a lot of things, but after falling off a roof onto a concrete patio, heights aren't one of them. Jasper comes down every night before dusk and tucks himself in to HIS nest box in HIS cage. It's filled to overflowing with fleece, I don't know how he doesn't roast, but he s it!

I so appreciate your support. Going to feed my littlest guys and then off to bed.