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Thread: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

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  1. #1
    gingchamp Guest

    Default Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    Can someone please tell me the symptoms of metabolic bone disease?? My Rosie is very sick and I have no idea what it could be!! She's very lethargic, droopy eyed, and has little interest in eating!! Please help!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    I just sent a PM. Hopefully someone will be here soon to help you.

    I'm not an expert at MBD but at least I can recommend that you provide something soft and warm to lie on. It's a bit like people with severe arthritis, their bones hurt very badly and the warmth helps to relieve some of the pain at least.

    What does her diet consist of usually? How old is Rosie? How long has she been this way?

    Do you have any Tums or calcium pills handy?

    I'm not sure of the dosage you'd ned but I know that if it's MBD they'll ask you to provide some calcium, so you might as well check to see what you have handy.
    "In the midst of our lives we must find the magic that makes our souls soar."
    My darling Scooter, beloved Hami, sweet gentle Simon... YOU are the ones who brought that magic in my life. You've changed the way I see all things around me now and, because of you, I want to be a better person. This is not goodbye, my sweethearts. You be at peace, your work here on earth is done... now you are finally, truly free. Until we meet at the Bridge again, please remember that I will always love you.
    The greatness of a nation can be measured by the way it treats its animals.
    - Gandhi -

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    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    Hi GingChamp
    Can you tell me what the diet consist of? How long has she been feeling bad? When did she eat last?
    Do you have some tums antacids, or Calcium powder?
    What kind of a squirrel do you have?

  4. #4
    gingchamp Guest

    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    Rosie is about 16 months old. Her diet consists of a variety of nuts (Both store bought and ones I collect in the wild) and plenty of veggies like avocado,yams, green beans, frozen peas,broccoli,and some fruits (she prefers veggies).She also has several types of calcium blocks and a mineral/salt wheel. She started acting lethargic about 3 days ago. Today she really has me worried.

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    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    Quote Originally Posted by gingchamp
    Rosie is about 16 months old. Her diet consists of a variety of nuts (Both store bought and ones I collect in the wild) and plenty of veggies like avocado,yams, green beans, frozen peas,broccoli,and some fruits (she prefers veggies).She also has several types of calcium blocks and a mineral/salt wheel. She started acting lethargic about 3 days ago. Today she really has me worried.

    mbd is usually the first thought because it is so easy for the squirrel to get.

    in order for them to digest nuts etc... calcium is leached from their bones.... (4skwerlz has a better explanation)

    if the squirrel isn't getting enough calcium mixed with the proper combination of phosphorus etc... it is still not getting enough calcium to their bones...

    squirrel diets are really, really hard....

    if you start the mbd treatment with the calcium tablets... it won't hurt her...

    how is her peeing/pooping etc...

    what happened the last week... anything sprayed...did she get into any kind of poisons... did she chew something that might have been toxic etc...

    where are you ..nearest city etc... if in case we have rehabbers nearby that can help you.....

    Silvana..

    *************************************

    tip for flyer parents.... Flying Squirrels need meat every single day (mealworms/waxworms/cooked chicken breast)

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    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    formula like fox valley and full fat danone yogurt is good for calcium too....

    but again ... talk to 4skwerlz ..and other experienced rehabbers.... mrs skul too is excellent... she's dyslexic but she's great over the phone... (well she's great anywhere.... )

    Silvana..

    *************************************

    tip for flyer parents.... Flying Squirrels need meat every single day (mealworms/waxworms/cooked chicken breast)

  7. #7
    gingchamp Guest

    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    I think I might know the cause of the MBD!!! My husband has been feeding her nuts continuosly throughout the days recently!! Ive told him to stop because shes no longer wanting her veggies!! I happened to buy a bottle of tums today. Going to give her the tums/water mixture immediatly!!

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    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    What formula did you raise her on? Is she a handicap Squirrel? Does she eat the calcium? You said 3 days. Did she Throw up? Is she still peeing and poohing? Could any of the nuts have been moldy? Do you peal the avocado? Could she have gotten into something Poisonous? Do you feed any kind os Rodent block, or Squirrel block?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=17677



    Emergency Treatment for Metabolic Bone Disease (updated 3-31-09)

    Get calcium into the squirrel IMMEDIATELY, not later, not tomorrow, NOW. Delaying treatment can cause death or permanent paralysis.

    You will need:

    --Tums or calcium pills (any kind)
    --a syringe, eyedropper, or spoon

    Crush one Tums or calcium pill and add a little water or fruit juice. Use the syringe, eyedropper, or spoon to force-feed the mixture, a little at a time, until it is all gone. Feed a total of 600-800 mg of calcium, and spread it out through the day and night to keep his blood calcium levels as steady as possible.

    If the squirrel is having seizures, weakness, or paralysis, the symptoms will usually improve within a few hours, but this does not mean the squirrel is cured. It will take many months to rebuild the calcium in the bones.Long-Term Treatment for MBD

    The next step to curing MBD is to fix the diet.

    1. Remove ALL seeds, nuts, corn, and treats.

    2. Follow the Healthy Diet For Pet Squirrels, which can be found at the top of the “Squirrel Nutrition” forum. (http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=16093) Your squirrel MUST eat rodent block or squirrel blocks every day. If your squirrel doesn't like rodent blocks, you can try crushing them up with peanut butter or avocado temporarily. You can also make a tastier version of squirrel blocks using the recipe at the top of the Squirrel Nutrition forum.

    3. In addition to the Healthy Diet, you will need to continue giving extra calcium every day for several weeks. Either use the syringe/eyedropper or you can try putting the calcium on a small piece of fruit.

    Week 1: calcium = 500 mg per day
    Week 2: calcium = 250 mg per day
    Weeks 3-8: calcium = 100 mg per day

    The cause of the acute symptoms—weakness, lethargy, seizures, paralysis—is a drop in blood calcium levels. If these symptoms return at any time, you will need to give another emergency dose of calcium.

    More Tips
    MBD causes brittle bones that break easily. Try to keep your squirrel away from high places, where he might jump and break a bone. Also, if he is in a tall cage, either place him in a smaller cage, or pad the bottom very well.

    Heat is very soothing for a squirrel with MBD. A heating pad turned to low and placed so they cannot chew the pad or cord, or a rice buddy (a sock filled with dry rice/beans and microwaved for about 20 seconds) will work.

    Silvana..

    *************************************

    tip for flyer parents.... Flying Squirrels need meat every single day (mealworms/waxworms/cooked chicken breast)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    what kind of rodent block does she get? The kind you find at pet stores for rats and mice? If so, that may not have enough calcium/nutrients in there for her... therefore you may be looking at MBD.

    Does she get branches, plants for outside? Anything that could possibly have had toxins on it? Things that come from outside "might" have toxins which could cause a kind of poisoning... which would cause the lethargy and weakness too. You menttioned nuts from outside... I'd be worried about those, sometimes they can be moldy and we can't see that. I would remove those immediately as a precaution.

    I'm not an expert on their illnesses, am only throwing out ideas as to the possible causes of her feeling so bad. I hope others can help you better...

    Keeping you and sweet Rosie in my prayers, hoping she makes a prompt recovery.
    "In the midst of our lives we must find the magic that makes our souls soar."
    My darling Scooter, beloved Hami, sweet gentle Simon... YOU are the ones who brought that magic in my life. You've changed the way I see all things around me now and, because of you, I want to be a better person. This is not goodbye, my sweethearts. You be at peace, your work here on earth is done... now you are finally, truly free. Until we meet at the Bridge again, please remember that I will always love you.
    The greatness of a nation can be measured by the way it treats its animals.
    - Gandhi -

  11. #11
    squirrelington Guest

    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    there seems to be a litteral sea of information out there regarding mbd in squirrels sometimes the whole calcium vs phosphorus thing gets confusing to me for instance i have a beautiful boy he is roughly 9 or 10 years of age and up until 2 weeks ago was acting normal and doing squirrel things just like any normal pet squirrel would but lately he has become lethargic and dose not have his normal appetite he is also sleeping much more and is not drinking his water as much as before over the years i have included plenty of fresh vegies and plenty of nuts in his diet and have also supplemented with additional calcium from time to time although not regularly i recently found out from this web site that nuts are not the best for pet squirrels hats off to all of you for your labor of love also he has not had too much acsess to unfiltered sunlight but i have provided him with uv lights in the past two days i have been giving him concentrated doses of calcium carbonate with vitamin d my first instinct for fear of loosing him mostly was to start mega dosing him with calcium ihave refrained from doing that however because i understand that more is not always better i have heard that hhb's are a good diet option but i have also heard that they contain ultra high levels of nutrients plus added whey protien which can cause kidney failure i have not noticed a change in energy levels in the two days of oral calcium doses and i am wondering is more necessary? i have talked to some of the rehabbers in the tampa bay area but they tend to disagree as to the proper treatment regimen other than to say calcium-calcium-calcium i live and work in tampa and i think the world of these rehabbers but more input is always appreciated it would be great if i could meet some other people who are learned on this subject even just to get some food for thought on this website would be great for example how long before i start to see improvement in my precious little boy or should i pursue drastic intervention measures by the way his name is little boy i will try to get some pictures as soon as i figure out how to post them i am a realative newcomer to the world of computers once again i sure would appreciate any help the good folks here could provide god bless signed dazed confused and desperate in tampa fl.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    9 to 10 years old sounds almost in the geriatric age bracket for a squirrel. Maybe she is becoming arthritic??
    Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do other creatures.

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    squirrelington, you should begin the Emergency Treatment for MBD immediately, without modification or hesitation, because it has proven to save squirrel lives over and over again!

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=17677

    As for the whey protein issue, I would like to see the documentation for this "causes kidney disease" thing that's going around. Recently I heard that Pet Ag took whey protein out of their Esbilac formula and the results were pretty much disastrous as far as baby squirrels were concerned. One or two HHB's per day is your adult squirrel's best insurance against MBD....it definitely sounds as if she has it now, but it's not too late to reverse it. Nuts MUST GO. Remember that in the wild, squirrels only get CERTAIN nuts at CERTAIN times of the year, for only a two or three week period.....nuts nuts nuts, all year round, is completely unnatural for a squirrel and will result in poor health and MBD.
    Island Rehabber
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    You can't afford a pet.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    The whey protein rumor....This is really twisting the facts.

    Where this rumor probably originates:

    Theoretically
    , megadoses of protein can cause kidney damage. That's "excessive amounts of protein" not "recommended amounts of protein," like in rodent block.

    Ironically, if you do decide to consume excessive amounts of protein, of all the various sources of protein, whey protein is the least likely to have this effect because it is the highest quality form of protein there is; there are no waste products that must be metabolized by the body.

    Henry's Healthy Pets
    Henry's Healthy Blocks, Fox Valley Formula, Fleecies Cage Gear and more

    The animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older than ours, they move finished and complete, gifted with senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren; they are not underlings; they are other nations… ~Henry Beston, The Outermost House, 1928

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    Off topic, but I'll bet you anything that Pet Ag took out the whey protein because of COST, not health-related reasons.
    Island Rehabber
    NY State Licensed
    Wildlife Rehabilitator


    "Ancora Imparo" (I am still learning)
    Michelangelo


    *
    If you can't afford the vet,
    You can't afford a pet.
    NEGLECT IS ABUSE.

    "Better one day in the trees, than a lifetime in a cage."

    '...and the greatest of these, is Love. '

  16. #16
    squirrelington Guest

    Default Re: Symptoms of metabolic bone disease???

    hello again everyone: just wanted to say that its day 4 now since i discovered my little boy in distress,and started emergency mbd treatment. He is doing alot better now thanks to the good advise given to me by my rehabber freinds and the good folks here at the squirrel board. I do still have some questions however,for example i am still not sure how much calcium is too much or when to start backing off. The whole how much for how long thing is a little uncertain to me.Since I began treatment he has been getting approximately 400 to 700 gms. per day of calcium plus what is added to his water which i believe is a maintnence amount along with a potassium magnesium mixture.This 300 gm. discrepency lies in the fact that when i put the calcium on or in his food he dosent always finish it all. Once again he is doing much better but i must know when to back off and to how much for daily intake any help is appreciated thanx and god bless signed: hopefull in tampa fl.

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