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Thread: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

  1. #1

    Default Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    I don't think I'm jumping the gun here. I recently posted a question about Mange/Pox on Jr, my youngest released. I research for a living (wanted to pursue vet school, but I would've eventually killed a neglectful "owner" or two!), so I try not to make assumptions until I'm pretty sure of something. Jackie in Tampa is now backing me up by giving me all the help and info she can. When I first found the Board I was glad to see that there was somebody so informed and caring in my vicinity, but I could've never guessed that she would be such a determined angel <3

    Anyway, I'm noticing MANY more sores on my baby, but that could be because he's wanting so much love while I make him stay inside with me. My oldest, Sir Steve ( long story ) is now a sweet, sickly squirrel as well. He only has a bump on his ear and an itchiness issue, thank goodness, but I've seen three other squirrels today with a bump or two. They are now enjoying echinacea water, and I plan on giving them anything else I can.

    I'm doing my best to keep thorough documentation. Today is day one of Operation Pox Buster (yes, we need a better name for it!)
    With all of the wonderful work everyone has done, it deserves to be compiled even further with thorough case studies. Once I can get Jr through his first round of meds (still working on that part, unfortunately) I'll elaborate.

    If there's anyone in the area, please feel free to PM me with reports of any presence/absence of symptoms. I'd love to be able to help, even if it's just with documentation.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    Wishing you success in your battle against pox. I hate that disease. You have a strong Squirrel Angel fighting at your side. The earlier you start meds, seems like the better the outcome.
    Henry's Healthy Pets
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    The animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older than ours, they move finished and complete, gifted with senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren; they are not underlings; they are other nations… ~Henry Beston, The Outermost House, 1928

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    It was nice to see you again...wish the visit didn't include pox...
    every year at this time...it rears it's ugly head.
    The mosquitoes aren't as bad tonight as last night..errrrr!!

    Sounds like both your boys are healthy and that does make a difference imo. It would seem so, as their immune system is compromised.
    It was good to see you again!
    Most people really irritate Rocky, he was so sweet and calm! He didn't even growl! must be the blonde hair!!
    get the nutella out!!!! and get those boys well asap!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    Thanks you two! Jackie, I really did have a wonderful time! Although it was because of the same unfortunate disease, this visit was definitely a lot happier. I have hope for my boys. Jake, a third one I told you about, came by to say hi this evening. He looked good.

    Jr didn't want Nutella tonight. I had to jump into my neighbor's yard to finally talk him into coming down and refrain from scratching for a bit. He was a little cranky, and I had no choice but to use a syringe for the first doses. After he wiped his mouth off ALL over me and drank some e-water, he seemed happy to hang out on my shoulder and eat a couple of nuts. Hopefully he'll be hungry enough in the morning to try a different approach. I'd like to think that the meds are at least helping a bit tonight, and he'll start feeling a bit better soon.

    Today has really worn me out, but I plan on keeping close track of progression of illness (or lack thereof!) and the meds. I want to see if I can get any of my friends at school to help, as well. I'll try to convince them that this has relevance in some of their studies, which I wholeheartedly believe!

    Thanks again, and goodnight!!!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    JessicaLynn I recently sent jit a link to a site for an immune booster. I have had great luck with it. It is prescription. Check out http://www.healx.co.uk/booster.html I have Sunshine Factor and Booster and use them both daily.

    Much luck in your fight against the worst enemy ever to squirrels
    Dragon's flame has gone out but his spirit lives on within me

  6. #6

    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    Thank you, lili!

    I'll definitely check it out; anything that might help is so very much appreciated. I know the lengths you will go for your babies, I'm always so happy to hear that there are others out there with such big hearts. I know that I'm in for a struggle, especially after last night's fiasco with Jr (although he may have just been playing me- he knows how to wrap me around those adorable little toes...). I may usually be a spectator here, but I've learned everything from you all. I'd love to be able to contribute, so I hope both the outcome and the research proves positive and useful!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    I have a few in the land lab where I work that have sores and scratching. They aren't friendly but are taking the e water and meds pretty well with some nutella. They will come close enough for me to make sure they are eating their meds and seem to be improving over the past week. They all appear to be young I think they are possibly siblings. They get friendlier daily and I think the nutella really is helping in that. I have built a feeder for them and am giving them some of my boo balls in there in the mornings so that they are getting good nutrition while fighting this. There are about 6 of them all male. We are in Gibsonton so you know for your research.
    Susan

    Mother of 1 human, 2 dogs, 2 cats, a mocking bird (released), a tank of freshwater fish,4 squirrels (released), 1 oppossum (released), and room for more babies !!!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    Quote Originally Posted by SquirrellyMom
    I have a few in the land lab where I work that have sores and scratching. They aren't friendly but are taking the e water and meds pretty well with some nutella. They will come close enough for me to make sure they are eating their meds and seem to be improving over the past week. They all appear to be young I think they are possibly siblings. They get friendlier daily and I think the nutella really is helping in that. I have built a feeder for them and am giving them some of my boo balls in there in the mornings so that they are getting good nutrition while fighting this. There are about 6 of them all male. We are in Gibsonton so you know for your research.
    what meds if you don't mind me asking...
    I have been trying to find the perfect solution to help these littles get well as fast as possible...
    the longer they wait for meds, it seems the worse they get..and I hate when they disappear
    thanks for helping them!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    SquirrellyMom, thanks for helping! It's definitely good to know. I'm interested in your meds and dosing as well. I know pics might be tough, but it could help us compare progression in these cuties.

    I'm still looking for Nystatin. It might be right under our noses. Anyone that's had dental work, thrush, any type of fungal infection, might have access to it. I though I had some for my dog, but was mistaken. Ironically, the name sounded familiar because I had to memorize the drug's mechanism for school a few weeks ago. :/ Has there been any research or experimentation with OTC derivatives of this drug? Monistat sounds like the closest one, but I wonder how other antifungals would perform and which would be safe. Mice are usually used in initial trials, so does that mean that squirrels would be okay? Jackie and 4skwerlz, this would be a wonderful time to start looking through journal articles; this should be an easier question to answer than the major one at hand. I'll contact the chemists I know, and we're gonna find some answers, you can bet your cute little paw prints!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    Oh goodness, I got carried away... I wanted to report in! This morning, after making me climb up on the garage again (the things we do...), Jr came in along with Steve!!! I had to make my way through the backyard with them chasing each other on me. It killed, but I was glad they had it in them!

    Steve took Acyclovir almost willingly, and the Baytril was pretty easy as well. He was too excited to stay still for long, so I didn't get an exact weight. It seems that he's about 490g, 20g heavier than Jr, but that may be an underestimate. I gave him dbl the dosage of Jr because I'm not sure if he'll come home tonight. He still has a bump on his ear but it's not getting dark like Jr's yet. There's also one on his back now, just starting.

    Jr refused Nutella even though he wanted the whole jar yesterday (I practically had to fight him for it!). We did oral syringes again and, while he did put up a bit of a fight, we definitely had an easier time today. He was completely fine and loving afterwards, so I don't believe this is causing him much stress.

    In the future, I'll keep the long documentation to myself and give you guys the important stuff, if that's better. I'm still trying to figure out the cleanest way to take these notes. Yep, I'm a bit of a dork.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    I have the Nystatin powder here. If you want it, just PM me with your address information. It is early enough in the month that I have a few $$$ to pay for mailing it to you.
    Anne
    Wildlife and Squirrel Rescue,Inc.
    Rescuing Fl squirrels since 1979
    Moderator: NFSA Emergency Care
    Wildlife Intake Coordinator and Rehab Consultant at "The Ark Wildlife Care and Sanctuary Inc"

    Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but learning to how to dance in the rain"

    "The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it taken place."
    George Bernard Shaw

    "Kindness is the language the blind can see and the deaf can hear." - Mark Twain

  12. #12

    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    Quote Originally Posted by JessicaLynn
    In the future, I'll keep the long documentation to myself and give you guys the important stuff, if that's better. I'm still trying to figure out the cleanest way to take these notes. Yep, I'm a bit of a dork.
    Please continue with the long documentation! All of this info is IMO extremely valuable: day-by-day observations of the progress and appearance of the lesions, trouble with dosing and any tricks that work, how sqs handle the stress of treatment, etc., etc. I don't think there can be too much detail. Need pics too.

    This thread will be a big help to the next person trying to treat backyard sqs with pox.
    Henry's Healthy Pets
    Henry's Healthy Blocks, Fox Valley Formula, Fleecies Cage Gear and more

    The animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older than ours, they move finished and complete, gifted with senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren; they are not underlings; they are other nations… ~Henry Beston, The Outermost House, 1928

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    I agree with Leigh maybe you talking out loud can give others ideas that may help
    Dragon's flame has gone out but his spirit lives on within me

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    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    anne, it would be about $2 at the post office.. parcel post will get there same as 3 day..I think.
    what is the expiration date on your nystatin powder?..Is it the NYSTOP?
    yeah jessica...it appears they love you...coz that baytril is yuck yuck..
    I can get the nystop if we need to....
    I haven't looked on the $4 list, it may be there..
    last time I bought any, walgreens, 30grams $68
    and really don't need that much anyways...
    I sent mine somewhere, but that was forever ago..last year.
    watch their appetites...some sqs lose theirs on the anti viral.
    iif so, reglan...but since both boys are young and healthy ...hoping for speedy recovery.
    did they have yogurt??probotic

  15. #15

    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    Anne- Sent! Thank you for your help, you have NO idea how much it means to me. Jackie asked me yesterday if I was ever going to have kids... I told her maybe, but these guys ARE my kids no matter what!

    Leigh, I'm glad you like it! I'll eventually come up with a more scientific approach, but I don't want to miss anything! I've got to go back through recent events to figure out just when I first noticed it on Jr. I've got video... I'm trying to take pictures too, but they'd rather chew on my phone than stand still for a pic.

    Lilidukes, it seems that I'm getting feedback AND help! I absolutely love you guys, and I love feeling like I'm not alone in this fight! It's really taking its toll on me!

    Thank you for the offer and the heads-up, Jackie! I hadn't thought too much about appetite loss. They were fine this morning. Steve was just starting, of course. He really appreciated the nuts, but it was tough explaining that he had to share. I had to hide them when he wasn't looking, because he'll watch! Jr seemed the slightest bit tired, but he could've just been taking advantage of the peace and quiet (Steve wanted his face rubbed). He stole my plum and helped himself to a bit of the buffet I had out for him, but it was the e water he was the most excited about. I guess it's better chilled.

    I'll make sure to document eating habits as well. I'll contact you if I have any sudden changes, of course!

  16. #16

    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    I have been giving nystatin, baytril, childrens motrin for pain from scratching too much and reglan. I don't have the dosages in front of me the agriculture teacher has her vet assisting kids measure it out for me every day and put it in the fridge. The motrin and reglan are from my son he has stomach issues and has from birth so it is always on hand. The nystatin and baytril they have for the rabbits and such here. We gave them ivomec in a VERY VERY minute dosage to make sure it wasn't mites as well. We can't get the best look and information with them not getting close enough. Today when I was out there with the kids they watched us from trees and looked to be doing better. I am feeding them everything I would a juvenile and even giving calcium to make sure they are going to be ok. None of the females in the area look to be affected but some of them are my releases so they come to me and get fed and have really good immune systems as they still get supplements and extra healthy food.
    Susan

    Mother of 1 human, 2 dogs, 2 cats, a mocking bird (released), a tank of freshwater fish,4 squirrels (released), 1 oppossum (released), and room for more babies !!!

  17. #17

    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    Alright guys, I'm feeling rough and not much has changed, so this may be short.

    I had to help my grandmother with her own animals, so I didn't make it home in time to see if Steve was hanging out, but I didn't expect him to. I eventually got Jr in (he tried to get me to climb a tree to see him, silly boy!). He will not be fooled with medicated treats, so I had to use a syringe again. He wasn't happy; he'd bite the tip of my finger and hold on (c'mon Mom, not again!), but he was happy to be through with it. He's still scratching a lot, but it's not continuous. It was already late, so he ate a bit and took some nuts outside with him. The first sore on his face seems more pronounced (but not wider in diameter). The one by his leg looks larger in diameter due to a second sore (?) overlapping it. He was unhappy about me trying to look, so I felt bad trying to get pictures tonight. I'll have a better chance in the morning.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    Well, I've got mixed news today. Jr came by for both treatments (eventually!), but I did not see Steve. This was kind of expected, but I was sectretly hoping that he'd eat the extra attention up. He wasn't looking that bad yesterday morning, so I guess I have to see what happens. I don't want to confine him and stress him out if he's able to fight this.

    I weighed Jr this morning: 468g. That's 2g less than his weight at the beginning of treatment, but that might be within normal variation. The large sore on his face is hard and scabbed, as is the second. The third appears to be completely gone, but it was small to begin with. The sore on his stomach has grown due to the one right up against it. I could only get him to drink and eat plum before medication, but eventually he even wanted some Nutella!!! He was pretty active inside; he wanted to play but was rough at times. I think he's feeling a bit better. He's still itchy, and his ears are getting pretty crusty. I held him while my brother took pics for me, but he missed the sores... I'll try again tomorrow, I'm dying to share pictures!

    I do have a couple of questions still... The Reglan? Is that an appetite stimulant, and should I consider it? I'm not sure that his appetite has been affected, but I want to play it safe. Also, I'm worried that the itching is causing a lot of stress. He started to zone out while I was rubbing his face and scratching his back... he loved it, but it makes me think that his skin is really bothering him. Jackie, I know you said not to treat the mange, but I want to make sure to show you his ears and demeanor. I'd like to know if you think priorities change at all. Pics tmro!!! Last question (I think): I know that the scabs are bad, and while they don't look easily, um, pickable (yuck, lol), I want to do everything right. Once you see, I'd like to know your opinion on how to go about that and when.

    I guess that's all for now. I'll have some extra hands tomorrow, so I should be able to get clear pictures of the two major sores. I'm watching the size and amount of the others, but I'm using the biggest as reference points.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    I'm just checking in on you. I have no experience with pox just very interested and concerned. Please don't feel alone in your fight, we've got your back. Wishing I was closer and could help you.

    jit is the best to have on your side at a time like this. The one thing that stands out to me about her is that she would never knowingly let you harm a squirrel without a major fuss. I wouldn't want to mess with that little fire ball. Ask her about the neighbors trash can

    Dragon's flame has gone out but his spirit lives on within me

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Possible Pox outbreak in St Pete, FL

    Quote Originally Posted by lilidukes
    I'm just checking in on you. I have no experience with pox just very interested and concerned. Please don't feel alone in your fight, we've got your back. Wishing I was closer and could help you.

    jit is the best to have on your side at a time like this. The one thing that stands out to me about her is that she would never knowingly let you harm a squirrel without a major fuss. I wouldn't want to mess with that little fire ball. Ask her about the neighbors trash can

    hoping steve will get his meds daily...they can be squirrely and stay away as we know...
    lili...I wish I had the trash can incident on film!!!!
    You can dab some neosporin ortriple antiB on his ears to soften them some...even mineral oil will work if they are really dry and crusty..
    The baytril is given as a treatment to the secondary infections that come along with the virus...
    My guts and several deaths say to NOT TREAT the mange..
    however, you are a smart girl and I can only advise what little I really know. BUT I WOULD NOT> I gave ivermectin to a little girl sq, she was maybe three months old and she passed away with in 30minutes. I also have seen and helped a fellow rehabber triage and the ivermectin was used and sq did not make it, actually several sqs..just seems to be too much on a weakened stress and compromised sq...they are 1 pound and we are administering alot of meds for their body to metabolize...
    hard on the liver...

    Are you seeing alot of wilds infected with the virus?

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