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Thread: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

  1. #1
    Rainy9 Guest

    Default Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    I hate to have to post about this, but I'm afraid we are experiencing seizures with little Totoro. I always thought she acted a little off, when compared to her sister, but last night there was no ignoring the fact that there is definatly something wrong.

    I opened the box at 12 AM last night to feed them. Totoro was curled up tightly in a huge puddle of pee on her blankie. Her sister climbed over her and Totoro spazed the *$%# out! She was shaking violently and would do her little hissing/spitting growl sound that says I'm scared/pissed off at you. She kept trying to scuttle away from my hand when I tried to pick her up for feeding. She seemed TERRIFIED!!! Like she didn't know me and had never seen such a creature before. This has NEVER happend...yes, sometimes she gets slightley startled when you pet her to try and rouse her for feeding and makes her fussy noise, but it is always short lived. This was just the begining.

    I tried to sooth her as well as I could. It just wasn't working. Her little heart was going so hard... I gave her the nipple and she took to it like she always does and it seemed to calm her just a tad. After she sucked all her food down I got ready to clean face and stimulate her and but she started flailing and writhing with so much force! (it was not your normal rebeling against being stimulated...it was downright scary!!!) I tried to get a safe hold on her and she started screaming the way she screamed the day I found her covered in ant bites. As she screamed she began to spray pee in every which direction. She stopped screaming and then seemed soooo calm and still, like none of this had ever happend. I took the opportunity to help her pee and poo...all went well in that department...

    But I noticed the look on her face, and the way she was holding her body. Her little heart was still racing and her torso looked like it was having spasms....like really harsh hiccups. I tried some more to clm her but she wouldn't stop this. Her little limbs we shaking violently now. I have no doubt in my mind that this was NOT REM sleep. It looked nothing like it...Way too violent and constant. Her torso convulsing stopped and after a few minutes the limbs shaking lessened but never really ceased completley. Durring all of this her body had become quite rigid and a bit twisted like someone had grabbed her head and turned it one direction and took her rear and turned it the other. Her eyes looked so tormented. She's watching us the whole time through these frightened little eyes like she's trapped in this body that can't be controlled by her own will.

    My husband and I tried to calm her and keep her warm...we curled her up and placed her back in her box, putting her in a postion that looked comfortable, as it seemed she wasn't going to move around much on her own. She was able to curl tightly on her own but when she TRIED to move, her body would not uncurl all the way (super hunched slow crawl). She kept her front arms always folded at the elbows and clenched to her outer sides...never seeming able to push them outwards to lift herself up...same for the rear legs. Her sweet paws stayed somewhat closed and very lifeless.

    We did not know what to do, but it was obvious we weren't helping in any way, so we let her be...peace and quiet, and snuggled her up next to her sister in case that might make her feel more at ease. I'm not sure if I should have posted about this last night, but I didn't feel I was level headed enough to do it at the time(I felt as if all the blood had drained from my head...my tongue actualy went about 50% numb. Not sure what it means..doesn't matter now). Instead I spent hours reading all over the forum trying to figure this mess out. My husband teamed up with me, using his mobile phone to search as well. We both ended up at the same thread (Knotthead is Naughty)with the same conclusion...it was most definatly seizures.

    She seems back to normal this morning....as normal as you can be when all your strength has just been drained from you. She is tired...so very tired. There was a bit of timidness when we first met eyes this morning but that melted away quickly and we snuggled, ate great, pooed and peed and gently snuggled some more. She is still holding her arms to her sides (except when it came to grabbong hold of the syringe... ) but did seem more able to lift herself around here and there...just not alot.

    I hope this is all going to be okay....and maybe we'll find a way to manage it..I just don't know enough yet. Have to figure out the "why" if I'm going to do her any real good. I don't know for sure that she has had previous seizures, but I do suspect it. If you look at the video (link in the thread Totoro and Maru) of their first playtime, you will notice how she walks around in circle repetitively or scoots backwards alot. Maru does not do this but Totoro has done this many times...circling over and over and over. She has always seemed very tired, hard to wake, easily aggravated and small in size...A very strong clash of opposites when comparing Totoro to Maru.

    The thing that scared me the most about the whole ordeal last night was the look of sheer terror and fear on her face when she first saw me after waking. If this is what I beleive it is, then I know that feeling all to well. To wake from a gran mal seizure...To not know where you are. To not know your loved ones faces...they are complete strangers. And worst of all, to not know who YOU are.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    oh, that poor, sweet girl! And poor YOU and hubby! What an awful thing to watch. It does sound like seizures, most likely due to head trauma from the original event that caused your babies to be separated from mamma. There isn't a lot you can do for seizures, but if they become severe sometimes phenobarbitol is recommended. In the meantime, I would give her a couple of drops of Vetri-DMG in her formula every day; it is a natural supporter of the immune system and also the nervous system. You can order it in a small bottle from Chris's squirrelsandmore.com.
    Others who have had seizure babies may weigh in here with much more helpful advice. All I can say is my prayers are with you and little Totoro.
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    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Oh dear. there are others here who can and will offer more. I do know two things I would do. First, I know that seizures like that deplete blood sugar so you need to supplement that - find something she likes - maple syrup, molasses, karo, I saw grenadine mentioned - even simple syrup would work, and keep it on hand so you can syringe it right into her mouth when the seizures subside and allow it safely.

    I would also invest in a bottle of Bach's Rescue Remedy. Get the spray - it looks like a breath spray. You can get it at most health food stores. Don't buy the animal stuff, get the spray container of regular rescue remedy. When the seizures start, spray the bottoms of her hind feet with it, and spritz some on your finger and rub it in her lips/gums. It won't stop the seizure but it will help her deal with the fear aspect. You can't use too much so don't worry - just get some on and if you can, a little in her mouth (it works transdermally so it will be absorbed through the feet, but mucous membranes in the mouth are the fastest route).

    Do you have a good, sympathetic vet?

  4. #4
    Rainy9 Guest

    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Quote Originally Posted by island rehabber
    oh, that poor, sweet girl! And poor YOU and hubby! What an awful thing to watch. It does sound like seizures, most likely due to head trauma from the original event that caused your babies to be separated from mamma. There isn't a lot you can do for seizures, but if they become severe sometimes phenobarbitol is recommended. In the meantime, I would give her a couple of drops of Vetri-DMG in her formula every day; it is a natural supporter of the immune system and also the nervous system. You can order it in a small bottle from Chris's squirrelsandmore.com.
    Others who have had seizure babies may weigh in here with much more helpful advice. All I can say is my prayers are with you and little Totoro.
    I will order some of the Vetri-DMG today. I guess I could try giving her something a little sugary the next time it looks like it's happening...in case it's hypo glycemia??? Your right, it probably is from nervous system trauma, but I can't rule out the sugar thingy just yet. I'm mixing up some rehydration fluid to give her next feeding. Hoping that will give her some strength back. I will look into the phenobarbitol, and see how it works and about getting some in case this becomes bad bad. Looks like we might have to take a trip to the vet. Thank you for your help IR. Any info is helpful right now. Even the littlest bit.

  5. #5
    Rainy9 Guest

    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom
    Oh dear. there are others here who can and will offer more. I do know two things I would do. First, I know that seizures like that deplete blood sugar so you need to supplement that - find something she likes - maple syrup, molasses, karo, I saw grenadine mentioned - even simple syrup would work, and keep it on hand so you can syringe it right into her mouth when the seizures subside and allow it safely.

    I would also invest in a bottle of Bach's Rescue Remedy. Get the spray - it looks like a breath spray. You can get it at most health food stores. Don't buy the animal stuff, get the spray container of regular rescue remedy. When the seizures start, spray the bottoms of her hind feet with it, and spritz some on your finger and rub it in her lips/gums. It won't stop the seizure but it will help her deal with the fear aspect. You can't use too much so don't worry - just get some on and if you can, a little in her mouth (it works transdermally so it will be absorbed through the feet, but mucous membranes in the mouth are the fastest route).

    Do you have a good, sympathetic vet?
    For some reason I don't have ANY type of syrup in my house. How did this happen? Anywho, I'll pick up a few of the types you mentioned (in case she doesn't like one) and I'll look for the Bach's Rescue Remedy. I wish I'd heard of the Bach's before....I have unexplained mini, non debilitating seizures all the time( I would be on anti convulsant meds but only they made things worse). This stuff could help me as well!

    You know, I think I'm just gonna have to go in there and ask the guy if he can help or not. He does seem nice. Has always been helpful when my two dogs or cat had emergencies. Never criticized, just told me the right way to do things and was willing to help the resulting bills be not so bad. My town is small (a farming town) and in a large woodsey area, so there is lots of wildlife...Davey Crockett National Forest!...hoping he is sympathetic towards these sorts of things. If not, poop on him, others on this forum have told me of a few places I might try. Thank you for your help CR.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Next time you place an order at Henrys, she has RR at the best price I have found - I usually pay about $17.99 for a sprayer of it (which lasts a LONG time). Like I said, it won't do anything for the seizures but that shaky, terrified feeling that becomes a negative feedback loop - it will help short circuit that.

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    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom
    Next time you place an order at Henrys, she has RR at the best price I have found - I usually pay about $17.99 for a sprayer of it (which lasts a LONG time). Like I said, it won't do anything for the seizures but that shaky, terrified feeling that becomes a negative feedback loop - it will help short circuit that.
    I was just gunna say that. CritterMom<------da BEST!
    I went clear to Fargo...AND Grand Forks...and no RR. I just ordered mine today from Henrys when I found it as I was ordering more blocks. It was like the clouds parted...and trumpets played....a shining white beam surrounded the bottle of Bachs Rescue Remedy! Angels sang and rejoiced!
    Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do other creatures.

    His Holiness The Dalai Lama


    The fate of animals is of greater importance to me than the fear of appearing ridiculous; it is indissolubly connected with the fate of men.

    Émile Zola

  8. #8
    momma2boo Guest

    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom

    I would also invest in a bottle of Bach's Rescue Remedy. Get the spray - it looks like a breath spray. You can get it at most health food stores. Don't buy the animal stuff, get the spray container of regular rescue remedy. When the seizures start, spray the bottoms of her hind feet with it, and spritz some on your finger and rub it in her lips/gums. It won't stop the seizure but it will help her deal with the fear aspect. You can't use too much so don't worry - just get some on and if you can, a little in her mouth (it works transdermally so it will be absorbed through the feet, but mucous membranes in the mouth are the fastest route).

    Do you have a good, sympathetic vet?
    I prefer the liquid with the dropper. Easier to get in the mouth. I would only do a drop orally since there is alcohol in it (the carrier).

    CritterMom! I was going to recommend it but then when I started to read your post I just knew you'd mention the miracle drug.

  9. #9
    Rainy9 Guest

    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom
    Next time you place an order at Henrys, she has RR at the best price I have found - I usually pay about $17.99 for a sprayer of it (which lasts a LONG time). Like I said, it won't do anything for the seizures but that shaky, terrified feeling that becomes a negative feedback loop - it will help short circuit that.
    LOL...and there I was talking about using it on myself. I must have gotten a bit excited when I saw the words Rescue Remedy and accidently skipped over the part where you said it wouldn't help with the seizures. Oppsies! But yes, I agree, getting rid of the fear is important....I can deal with mine, but baby could use some help.

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    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    No Advice. ..don't know enough..but LOTS of PRAYERS & LOVE
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@
    Stosh >>> Keeper of the KING ( of Costa Rica)

  11. #11
    Rainy9 Guest

    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Just a little update on Totoro:

    Late yesterday afternoon, I found her sweating from the mouth. Poor little baby was too hot! I thought it was strange that she was so hot, yet she hadn't moved over to the cooler side of the box. Fever? It crossed my mind...but that wasn't it. I took her out, dried her face and let her cool off a bit. Then I gave her a bit of honey mixed with a little warm water. She perked up immediatly!...trying to chew on everything like a little spaz (that's the girl I remember!) Seemed like she was her old self again, till I set her down to get her formula syringe ready. I just wanted to cry. The poor thing is not using her front legs and paws at all now! Just scootching around on her belly using her hind legs, which isn't working very well for her. She doesn't seem to be able to get where she wants to be. I took her too the bathroom sink and lowered her into some warm water and massaged her aching little muscles (arms, legs chest and fingers/toes). She really enjoyed it. I noticed once her forearms were wet through the fur that she had swelling and a red/purple bruise on the inner side of each one. I guess the strain and constant contractions of her muscles was hard enough on her to cause this.

    I'm really hoping that this will heal and is not permanent damage. I massage her lightly every now and then to try and help. She got too have her first cheerio yesterday (I was hoping it would help work out the kinks in her fingers)...wishing the timming could have been better, but she enjoyed it none the less...got it nice and mooshey

    I sewed her a new bed quickely yesterday. She needed something that she could slide around on easily so she wouldn't get stuck in a hot or cold area. It looks like a really tiny version of a stuffed doggy bed, with bumpers on three sides to help prop herself up and one open end so she can slide in and out of the bed when I remove it from her box. Last night she did good on it, but it's hard to tell if she really likes it or not because she is a bit down in spirits. Maru is also down. She runs around playing but then stops, lays down and looks all sad when she sees her sister trying to walk around. She really cares about her sissy. Maru does NOT like the new bed though! lol! she misses curling up in all the blankets...but I didnt want to take any chances with Totoro getting stuck, so I just spread one blanket flat over the top of the bed.


  12. #12
    mugzeezma Guest

    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    She needs Phenobarbital for the seizing. I have some old Depakote from my son. That would be absolutely last resort. Seizures destroy the parts of the brain that are misfiring and the more seizures she has...
    All I know, and it isn't much, is to get her blood sugar back up every time she seizes. They take a great deal of energy.

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    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Yeah - that's why I suggested getting some syrup of some kind that you can have right there. Even simple syrup (table sugar and water) will do.

  14. #14
    Rainy9 Guest

    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Quote Originally Posted by mugzeezma
    She needs Phenobarbital for the seizing. I have some old Depakote from my son. That would be absolutely last resort. Seizures destroy the parts of the brain that are misfiring and the more seizures she has...
    All I know, and it isn't much, is to get her blood sugar back up every time she seizes. They take a great deal of energy.
    Stosh...thank you for your prayers and love! She really needs it.

    CR...The syrup thingy is great . The honey really seemed to give her back lots of energy.

    Mugz...I am working seeing a vet for the phenobarbital. I really hope that I won't have to use any though. Thank you for your help.

    My mother in law just heard what happend and mentioned that she had something called Nutrical..nutri-cal? She said it was prescribed for her baby yorkie (she couldn't remember exactly what the ordeal was...it's been a few years, but said it was supposed to help keep blood sugar levels good or something?). It is also a type that would be applied oraly to the gums. She said the instructions said it was for dogs and cats. Just wondering if any of you have heard of this nutrical before and of you think it would be okay...I will read up on it though.

    Another thing my mother in law brought to attention is that Totoros arms...It might actually be nerve damage. I hope not.

  15. #15
    Rainy9 Guest

    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    This is what I found about Nutrical. I'm not really sure that it is nessicary but.....what do you guys think? I guess the benefit would be that she gets a little extra calories which might help since her body is probably pretty depleted. She doesn't have problems eating, but even with the rehydration fluids, the syrup and her FV...she is still very limp and smallish.


    Nutrical is a high calorie, low volume dietary supplement for dogs and cats that won't eat. It provides an additional source of energy for hunting and working dogs. Dosage: To use as a supplement - Give 1 and 1/2 teaspoons per 10 lbs. body weight once a day. To use when your pet is not eating well - Give 3 teaspoons per 10 lbs. body weight. Each teaspoon of Nutri-Cal equals 30 calories of nutrition. Available in 4.25 oz. tube.


    Indications and Usage: Nutri-Cal is a high calorie palatable dietary supplement used to provide supplemental caloric and nutritional intake in dogs and cats. It is also used to provide an added source of energy in hunting and working dogs. For Dogs And Cats Who Will not Eat or need An Added Source Of Energy. Great For Sporting And Working Dogs, Pregnant Or Ill Dogs And Cats, and the picky eater.
    NurtiCalt Side Effects:
    There are no reported side effects

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    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainy9
    Stosh...thank you for your prayers and love! She really needs it.

    CR...The syrup thingy is great . The honey really seemed to give her back lots of energy.

    Mugz...I am working seeing a vet for the phenobarbital. I really hope that I won't have to use any though. Thank you for your help.

    My mother in law just heard what happend and mentioned that she had something called Nutrical..nutri-cal? She said it was prescribed for her baby yorkie (she couldn't remember exactly what the ordeal was...it's been a few years, but said it was supposed to help keep blood sugar levels good or something?). It is also a type that would be applied oraly to the gums. She said the instructions said it was for dogs and cats. Just wondering if any of you have heard of this nutrical before and of you think it would be okay...I will read up on it though.

    Another thing my mother in law brought to attention is that Totoros arms...It might actually be nerve damage. I hope not.
    You poor girl!! All your posts and comments are so delightful and you have such a kind spirit!! I sure hope nothing is wrong with the arms.
    Just remember if anything is wrong....their recuperative powers are awesome. Im not sure about the nutri cal. Maybe one of the experts will see this and answer for you better. Give her a huge belly kiss from me. Poor baby.
    Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do other creatures.

    His Holiness The Dalai Lama


    The fate of animals is of greater importance to me than the fear of appearing ridiculous; it is indissolubly connected with the fate of men.

    Émile Zola

  17. #17
    mugzeezma Guest

    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainy9
    This is what I found about Nutrical. I'm not really sure that it is nessicary but.....what do you guys think? I guess the benefit would be that she gets a little extra calories which might help since her body is probably pretty depleted. She doesn't have problems eating, but even with the rehydration fluids, the syrup and her FV...she is still very limp and smallish.


    Nutrical is a high calorie, low volume dietary supplement for dogs and cats that won't eat. It provides an additional source of energy for hunting and working dogs. Dosage: To use as a supplement - Give 1 and 1/2 teaspoons per 10 lbs. body weight once a day. To use when your pet is not eating well - Give 3 teaspoons per 10 lbs. body weight. Each teaspoon of Nutri-Cal equals 30 calories of nutrition. Available in 4.25 oz. tube.


    Indications and Usage: Nutri-Cal is a high calorie palatable dietary supplement used to provide supplemental caloric and nutritional intake in dogs and cats. It is also used to provide an added source of energy in hunting and working dogs. For Dogs And Cats Who Will not Eat or need An Added Source Of Energy. Great For Sporting And Working Dogs, Pregnant Or Ill Dogs And Cats, and the picky eater.
    NurtiCalt Side Effects:
    There are no reported side effects
    I used Ensure plus Vanilla flavored. It worked well with the animal that had seizure issues. Her's were horrible and frequent Grand Mal caused by parasites.

  18. #18
    mugzeezma Guest

    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Quote Originally Posted by mugzeezma
    I used Ensure plus Vanilla flavored. It worked well with the animal that had seizure issues. Her's were horrible and frequent Grand Mal caused by parasites.
    Can you get a fecal float done on her?
    I dewormed that particular little girl with pp/P and put her on SMZ-TMP and her seizures abated the next day. Fecal float found tapeworms...dead :wott
    While Toturo is more than likely a head trauma issue it can't hurt to check it out.

  19. #19
    Rainy9 Guest

    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Quote Originally Posted by mugzeezma
    Can you get a fecal float done on her?
    I dewormed that particular little girl with pp/P and put her on SMZ-TMP and her seizures abated the next day. Fecal float found tapeworms...dead :wott
    While Toturo is more than likely a head trauma issue it can't hurt to check it out.
    Ensure sounds like a good idea....esspecialy since I'm not sure about the nutrical. Just curious..what exactly is a fecal float?

    If she does have parsites, I will want to treat both squirrels, yes?

  20. #20
    Rainy9 Guest

    Default Re: Strange, scary behavior...worried it's seizures

    Quote Originally Posted by jo_schmoe
    You poor girl!! All your posts and comments are so delightful and you have such a kind spirit!! I sure hope nothing is wrong with the arms.
    Just remember if anything is wrong....their recuperative powers are awesome. Im not sure about the nutri cal. Maybe one of the experts will see this and answer for you better. Give her a huge belly kiss from me. Poor baby.
    The amazing powers of the baby squirrel belly....administering kisses now

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