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Thread: Help! KMR?

  1. #1

    Default Help! KMR?

    Please dont tear me a new BLANK about how you HATE KMR because you are a professional at raising squirres and your new born foxvalley food is just so wonderful, im not ordering anything offline, and I will only get whats at my local petsmart. And dont be like "well if your not going to get the best for your squirrel, why keep it and not give it to a rehabber?" cause im not giving it to a rehabber and thats my choice.

    I joined this forum because I have been looking all over the internet for DAYS to find out what I SHOULD feed my baby squirrel. I found him Friday, and I called a vet that said, and strongly supported when I suggest Esbilac (reading google results), to feed him KMR Liquid, so i have been. The squirrel is 1 to 2 weeks old, I looked up squirrel charts. When i got him he was completely pink and tiny with whiskers, now he has dark shadow all down his head and back. Anyway, I initially fed him Pedialyte, heated, and gradually mixed in the KMR. Now, 6 days later, I am still feeding him KMR out of the can, mixing in a tiny bit of Pedialyte, and whipped cream for fat. He takes it and drink, I get him to pee and poop, and he goes right back to sleep. His stool isn't loose, its golden yellow, some brown, and is soft, i cant explain it really, but i do not think its diarreah. My question is, WILL HE DIE IF I KEEP FEEDING HIM KMR?? When I look at all the google results, its like a civil war between KMR and Esbilac, each side has its reasons of why the other is bad, or why KMR or Esbilac is poison, blah blah blah. I'm not interesting in ordering FOX Valley crap. I just need an honest answer, if I can raise him successfully on KMR, i fear switching to esbilac, even gradually, will kill him. To me, hes doing fine on KMR and passes all the dehydration test I can find to do. I dont care to know all the differences on why esbilac is better than KMR, and why fox valley is better than esbilac, I just would ver, very much appreciate if you could tell me if I am ok with the KMR. And if you would mind emailing me at tango1865@yahoo.com so I can get you advice quicker because that email I often check. Thank you
    Last edited by island rehabber; 07-28-2010 at 05:59 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    City Island, Bronx, NY
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    37,316

    Default Re: Help! KMR?

    Sent my response to your email. You're not going to like it, I'm afraid. With your attitude, I wish your little squirrel the very best of luck, as he will be needing it.
    Island Rehabber
    NY State Licensed
    Wildlife Rehabilitator


    "Ancora Imparo" (I am still learning)
    Michelangelo


    *
    If you can't afford the vet,
    You can't afford a pet.
    NEGLECT IS ABUSE.

    "Better one day in the trees, than a lifetime in a cage."


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Southeast Texas
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    Default Re: Help! KMR?



    You don't sound like you're very open to advice or input from rehabbers... just the information you can find on Google posted by crazies on the internet with little or no experience.

    There are other things you can feed your squirrel besides KMR - the goats milk recipe for example. And from what I recall, you're not supposed to mix pedialite with formula.

    I wish your little squirrel the best of luck, coming to a board with close mindedness and seeking advice you're probably not going to take anyway is a little rude - and it shows in your attitude.

    Jessica & JuJu (aka Ike)




    Momma's Doodle Bug ^


    "The winds of Heaven blow between the ears of a horse"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Help! KMR?

    Wow! Why did you come to this board if you didn't want the great advice from our rehabbers? These people are the most knowledgeable folks I have ever found and even though I've raised other squirrels before my present one, I have learned so much from the folks on here.

    I hope for the sake of this baby squirrel, you listen to these wonderful and highly knowledgeable bunch of licensed and unlicensed rehabbers.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Orange Park Florida
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    Default Re: Help! KMR?

    The rehabbers on this board have taken a considerable amount of time researching the available formulas out there to insure that orphaned baby squirrels receive nutrition that is THE VERY BEST FOR THEM. Last year, far too many babies were lost due to the use of Pet Ag products (Esbilac, KMR). Puppy formula (Esbilac) most closely resembles mother squirrel's milk, NOT KMR (kitten milk replacer). However, due to the large number of deaths and failure to thrive situations experienced with Esbilac last year, a large majority of rehabbers have switched to the Fox Valley 32/40 for their squirrels and opposums. To date, on this Board, we have seen none of the problems with the Fox Valley that we did with Esbilac. On this Board, we all share a common desire: TO DO WHAT IS THE BEST FOR ORPHANED SQUIRRELS. And after much research it has been determined that the Fox Valley formula is the food they SHOULD be on. Personally, I started using Fox Valley in January and I could not believe what a huge difference it made with my squirrels. I firmly believe Fox Valley is a superior product to the Peg Ag line of milk replacers. I don't know what your personal reasons are for not wanting to order the Fox Valley.....I know some people just don't like ordering things online. Nick at Fox Valley is only a phone call away and he goes above and beyond to make sure that everyone that orders his product is happy-from the ordering process all the way down to shipping. Now, all of that aside. I have to wonder why you are bothering to ask anyone on this Board their advice/opinions at all. If you have truly been "researching for days" on the internet for milk replacer options, then you already know how the rehabbers on this Board feel about Esbilac. You would have also found out the kitten milk replacer is NOT a suitable food for squirrels. Yes, some vets have recommended it, however please keep in mind that the majority of vets are trained in the care of domesticated animals and not wildlife, so in all probability they wouldn't necessarily know what the current trends are in wildlife rehabbing. Think of it like this: A physician, while during med school, has to train in all areas of medicine, but when a physician specializes in a particular area, say Orthopedics. 10 years after med school they know all the current trends in Ortho but wouldn't really know anything about the current trends in Obstetrics. The same is true with vets. There are a lot of helpful people on this Board and far too many success stories to even count. We are all about helping those that need it, but I really don't know how we can help someone who is too close-minded to even listen. I wish your little squirrel luck. Sorry this was so long.

    Oh, and Lookmomchickens is right: you shouldn't be mixing pedialtye with the formula. Pedialtye is an electrolyte replacement and it can also interfere with how the squirrel absorbs the nutrients from the formula. If you feel your baby is dehydrated or has diarrhea then offer a few feedings of JUST the pedialtye. Not the two together. Also, the goat's milk formula on this board is also a far better choice than Esbilac or KMR, and you can purchase the goat's milk in your local grocery store.

    lizharrell1

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Help! KMR?

    Island Rehabber
    NY State Licensed
    Wildlife Rehabilitator


    "Ancora Imparo" (I am still learning)
    Michelangelo


    *
    If you can't afford the vet,
    You can't afford a pet.
    NEGLECT IS ABUSE.

    "Better one day in the trees, than a lifetime in a cage."


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    somewhere over the rainbow
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    16,520

    Default Re: Help! KMR?

    I only have one question, do you want to save this squirrel? I mean, is that why you took him in? Then why would you not do what you could to do that? Or find someone that IS willing to do that? I am confused, to say the least. What has made you so angry for people saying what their experience has been with different foods? You ask, but don't want to hear anything other then what you want to hear. You want to know...NO, both KMR and Esbilac will do great harm to that squirrel (which I am pretty sure is ILLEGAL to have in PA). If you want to do what is right for this squirrel, then do it. Don't complain because you don't like being told what to do. GROW UP and do right by this squirrel.
    President--Meemor Anonymous,
    Mary...
    MISS YOU NUT, LOVE YOU FOREVER.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Help! KMR?

    Pappy! You're right. It is illegal in PA. I should know. I have had to jump through hoops early on in Chicklet's life for her to be seen by a vet that my Mom used to work for because she has severe head drift at times (for 5-10 minutes on end - where she just freezes). I worry constantly if the time comes again that she'll need to go to the vet. Worst case scenario I'd probably drive her to Florida to be seen by a vet, at the drop of a hat (or beg and plead with IR to help - since she's only a few hours away...wink wink)

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Help! KMR?

    Quote Originally Posted by keetz1205
    (or beg and plead with IR to help - since she's only a few hours away...wink wink)
    Island Rehabber
    NY State Licensed
    Wildlife Rehabilitator


    "Ancora Imparo" (I am still learning)
    Michelangelo


    *
    If you can't afford the vet,
    You can't afford a pet.
    NEGLECT IS ABUSE.

    "Better one day in the trees, than a lifetime in a cage."


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Pensacola,Florida
    Posts
    1,261

    Default Re: Help! KMR?

    I am so sorry for you I can not add anything that has not been said.This is a great forum and is full of experienced people,who have devoted their lives to caring for the precious gifts that God has created for our enjoyment.If money is a problem for you, and maybe that is why you have not been able to order the Fox Valley,and I know there is more here than meets the eye.Please go to the Esbilac, and add the heavy cream or full fat yogurt.If your baby has diarrhea,he will die,and if he does not get enough calcium and fat he will die.If you believe he has diarrhea,then all you have to do is give him a couple of tiny drops of kayopectate and it should clear up.DO NOT give him pepto bismol ,as that can kill him.Also he needs to be fed every three hours around the clock.Please for Gods sake if you can not do this take him to someone who can.I believe you are not a bad person ,other wise you would not be trying so hard to get the help you need to care for him.You have gone this far please take another step in the right direction.
    Quote: "All Creatures Big and Small,"All Things Bright and Beautiful" ,"All Things Wise and Wonderful" and, "The Lord God Made Them All" By James Herriot

  11. #11

    Default Re: Help! KMR?

    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel2010
    ......... . I just need an honest answer,..... I just would ver, very much appreciate if you could tell me if I am ok with the KMR. .....

    Just in case you are too close minded to read and actually consider the excellent advice you have already been given....

    the short sweet HONEST answer is NO

    i wish the squirrel the best of luck, hopefully the beauty of squirrels will open your heart to do what is best for him/her...in spite of your own selfish and ignorant attitude

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    6,351

    Default Re: Help! KMR?

    You cannot raise a baby squirrel on KMR. The problem is that squirrels need a formula with more fat than protein in it and KMR is a very high protein formula with lower fat. You would have to add a lot of heavy cream to balance it out and all the extra fluids from the heavy cream (which is pretty much just fat) will dillute the vitamins and minerals in the formula.

    I don't know why you came here though, because you don't really want advice and I doubt you will even read anything typed here.
    SQUIRRELS RULE AND BUNNIES TOO!

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