Aggression

[ravenqueen]

I've actually been dealing with this for awhile...my southern flyer, Puck, has been aggressive, and I haven't been able to get him to stop. We got him just before Christmas last year and he was the sweetest little baby boy. My husband and I both spent a lot of time with him, but I did spend more. We could tell after a couple of weeks that he is the more independant type, and gets very excited to explore--he's never been content to sleep in a bonding sack--he's always wanted to be out, looking at things. That is just fine, but when he hit six or so months old, he started biting my husband out of the blue. Not just little love bites, like we were used to, but run-up-the-leg-all-the-way-to-the-face-and-latch-onto-the-chin bites. Then, he started being aggressive with me, but not quite as bad. It seemed to come out of nowhere. I read in a book that I have that aggressiveness can be the first sign of calcium deficiency, as well as his claws catching on fabric (which they were) so we started giving him D vitamin supplements in his water, which seemed to help a little. He can still be mean to us, and he's always mean to our other pets (he ran up to my hamster and bit her in the butt...man can she squeal!) I also noticed about a week ago that his gonads are WAY bigger than they used to be, and very tight, so I'm wondering if he's finally reached sexual maturity, and if that is adding to his aggression. I'm so frustrated, because I can't have him out while my husband is around because he's gun shy, and I can't have him out while the other pets are out, and I really want to get a girl flyer, but I wouldn't want him to hurt her, so I'm really at a loss for what to do. I think that if I could spend lots more time with him, that he might calm down, but my time is reduced because of my hubby. Have any of you had this problem? Any advice? Sorry this is such a long post. Oh...and my vet said that he would be willing to neuter him. He's an excellent exotics doc and he's done lots of sugar gliders, but he admited he's never done a flyer. *sigh* I just don't know what action to take...please help!

[Mars]

It sounds like your little one has just grown up. Among rehabbers it's called wilding up. It's very natural and happens with most squirrels. As you read through the posts you find many others facing the same chioce you have before you. It's time to consider releasing your baby.

[ravenqueen]

I can't release him as he is a captive-bred southern flying squirrel. It is legal to have him in Colorado, but illegal to release him into the wild.

Plus, I didn't pay $300.00 plus (with shipping and cage and toys) to send him out to get eaten by the neighbor's dog. ;)

[Mars]

Ouch! Okay, you are dealing with natural hormones and territorial agression. Your baby is an adult. I honestly do not know if nuetering will correct the problem. :dono Hopefully, someone else here will chime in soon.

[Gabe]

I don't know much about flyers, but they have probably not bred the wildness out of them yet? I've had people that have paid big money for pet foxes, only to find out that they do "wild up" after a time and don't remain good pets. Sorry, not trying to make you feel bad. I've heard a rumour of a squirrel owner on this board, won't mention any names, I'll just look at that person and whistle :D , that actually had to sleep in a sack when their squirrel "allowed" them to come to bed with them. :) Seems the squirrel found her fair game while she was sleeping. But, I do believe it passed. Maybe this is just a phase your little guy is going through. Hopefully some flyer owners will step in and offer some better advice.

[ravenqueen]

Ouch! Okay, you are dealing with natural hormones and territorial agression. Your baby is an adult. I honestly do not know if nuetering will correct the problem. :dono Hopefully, someone else here will chime in soon.


Sorry...I didn't mean that rudely. I was at work and in a rush. I probably could have gotten my point accross more gently. Feel free to poke me with a stick if I get out of line again! :poke

[muffinsquirrel]

Yes, this is breeding season, and they have been known to get more aggressive then, especially their first season. Having him neutered may or may not change his disposition. Most people deal with this with a loud 'NO' when they do something they shouldn't. If that doesn't work, try a LIGHT spray of water from a spray bottle, still using a loud NO. One person used a dog whistle when her flyer did something wrong, and said that worked really well.

You said got your flyer from Helen's Little Critters, and were very satisfied with her and were thinking about buying another from her. First of all, why are you 'satisfied' with a flyer that you can't interact with without fear of him biting? And second, why would you go back to the same place to buy a female since the male didn't turn out all that well? I have heard a lot about Helen's - both good and bad. She sells a lot of animals of various kinds. I feel fairly sure that she does not raise all of them herself. There are not enough hours in the day to raise, care for, hand feed and tame that many animals. I raise flyers, and also rehab grey and fox squirrels, so I know how much care they take, and how much time it takes to give each baby individual 'out of cage' time. Luckily, the greys and foxers don't need the individual time the flyers do, as they will be released when they are old enough. But this summer I had 8 flyer pups born within a week and a half of each other. I spent weeks and weeks with a flyer baby in my shirt every waking moment.

There is a very good chance that your baby was a wild caught pup and/or had very little hand taming, or possibly came from a 'puppy mill' type breeder - that's why it is best to buy from a hobby breeder. You should go and pick them up, not have them shipped - that way you know what ypu are getting, and the treatment they have had. The breeder will probably want to know quite a bit about you, also, to be sure her pup is going to a good home. I realize that buying from a good breeder usually means traveling several hundred miles. But you are adopting a new member of your family that will be around for 15 years or so - it is definately worth the time and trouble to travel for a few days to make sure you are getting what you want.

I hope you can solve your problems with your flyer. And I would advise not getting another until you do, as the second will usually not bond as closely with you as it will to another flyer. I am sorry if I have said anything to upset you or make you mad - I really do want you to get to where you can enjoy your flyer. If there is anything I can help you with, please feel free to PM or email me.

muffinsquirrel

[rygel1hardt]

I bought my first female flyer from Helen's little critters when Helen still owned it. She was a beauty and seemed healthy up until she was two years old. One day she was playing and having a good time before I left for work and when I got home from work she was dead on the bottom of the cage. She never had a sick day and believe me I have done my research on diet. ( I am also a rehabber of greys,foxers, and possums) On examining her I found her to look fine with no broken bones or anything I could detect. Nobody here knows much about flyers and none of the vets in my area would have enough experience to tell what happened with a necropsy so I didnt have one done. My male was so lost without her that I thought I might lose him as well so I decided to get another flyer female from Helens. Helen had since retired after a near fatal car crash and sold the business to Vinette. I ordered my second female and when she arrived I couldnt believe how small and young she was. She was barely past her eyes opening and wild as a march hare. Even though she was so young I have never been able to tame her and believe me it wasnt for lack of trying. She is now six months old and not only is she not tame but she is very aggressive and mean. I get a daily war dance just for feeding her. Another friend bought a female about two years ago and she was never able to tame it either and it just recently died just like my first female did. One moment seemingly healthy and the next dead on the bottom of the cage at two years of age. I am thinking that some of her squirrels may have a fatal gene that kicks in at about the age of two and that it may possibly even be a sex linked gene since both these flyers were female. I have a four year old male that I have had since long before I got either female and he is sweet and healthy though a little chubby. Sorry for such a long post but that was my experience with Helen's little critters. Stacey

[ravenqueen]

I guess I said I was satisfied with Helen's because I assumed it was my own fault that he's aggressive, or possibly something to do with male flyers in general that I hadn't read about. He had arrived safely (and at the right size) and everything was fine for the first few months, plus and my wonderful exotics vet said he looked very healthy. But, you are absolutely right in that I have no way of knowing where he actually came from. I did do a lot of reaserch before I got him, but "a lot" isn't all that much because there just isn't enough information out there on flyers, and I didn't find the flying squirrel assocation on the web until just last month. I also couldn't find any breeders near enough to drive to, and I didn't find anything negative about Helen's Little Critters--everything I had read was positive.

And don't get me wrong, there are plenty of times when he will curl up in my shirt and "cuddle"--he even grooms my face while I'm reading. It's just that the random aggression puts us on edge because we don't know when to expect it. I read that they have a strong sense of smell, and they will sometimes bite at smells they don't like, but I don't think that is the case here. He tends to go for the face, but we don't really know what is setting him off. I just wish I knew what to do to help him. He really is a good little guy. I wanted to do clicker training with him, but I don't have the reflexes or the time to spend on it. I have trained him to go "home" when he hears his pecan can shake, but "NO" doesn't work on him. I think I will try the dog whistle approach. I will let you all know how that goes.

Any further advice is definitely appreciated!

[Mars]

What are you feeding your little one? I came across info on malnutrition causing agression in squirrels today.

[muffinsquirrel]

What are you feeding your little one? I came across info on malnutrition causing agression in squirrels today.

Please post it for all of us - sounds very interesting.

muffinsquirrel

[Mars]

This is what I came across.

"WARNING SIGNS THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE BABY' NUTRITION ARE HYPERACTIVITY, BITING, ATTACKING, OR AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR. THIS CAN BE CAUSED BY LACK OF CALCIU AND MAGNESIUM IN HIS DIET. TOO MUCH PHOSPHORUS CAN ALSO LEAD TO THIS BEHAVIOR"

I have not seen this elsewhere before. But feel it's worth following up on. It maybe after Christmas before I can do the research.

[ravenqueen]

This is what I came across.

"WARNING SIGNS THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE BABY' NUTRITION ARE HYPERACTIVITY, BITING, ATTACKING, OR AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR. THIS CAN BE CAUSED BY LACK OF CALCIU AND MAGNESIUM IN HIS DIET. TOO MUCH PHOSPHORUS CAN ALSO LEAD TO THIS BEHAVIOR"

I have not seen this elsewhere before. But feel it's worth following up on. It maybe after Christmas before I can do the research.

You know, I thought of that myself last night. I had originally tried to get him to take Brisky's flying squirrel pellets, because I figured they must be pretty well balanced, but he hates them. He would rather not eat then eat them. The breeder suggested a hookbill feed, but I can't find that in my area, so I've been giving him a quality hamster mix. I also give him fruit and vegetables, but probably not as often as I should. He won't eat live insects, so sometimes I give him freeze-dried ones. He gets rep-cal on his food a few times a week, and he has a calcium block that he chews on. I've been putting D3 vitamins into his water since I noticed the beginning signs of calcium deficiency, and that at least has improved. I am concerned that I don't feed him enough of the right things--I always overfill his bowl because most animals can self-regulate, and he's definitely not overweight. His coat and eyes are shiny, and his teeth are straight and lined-up.

Does anyone have a good, balanced diet that they give to their flyer? Could you describe what you do? I'm absolutely willing to do what I need to to make sure his nutrition is correct. Thanks!

[Critter_Queen]

I don't know much about fliers, but I would strongly recommend installing a full spectrum light in the room where the flier is usually housed. Not only will it help him produce his own vitamin D in the perfect quantity for his body, but it might even improve his mood a little, too. Since he may be truly a wild baby, this might also play a role in the need for "natural" sunlight. All non-nocturnal critters (what's the word for that??) need UVA and UVB rays to remain healthy long term. The only ways to get this is by being in direct sunlight (not through a window, but outside) or with a FULL SPECTRUM bulb.

Again, I don't know much about fliers, but I would suggest feeding them the same types of foods you'd feed other squirrels. I provide the following, daily, for each of my fox squirrels...(and it's OK to heap the dish if you heap the right things! :thumbsup )

Broccoli, sugar snap or snow peas, baby carrots, sweet potato, a couple of grapes, a couple of nuts, and pumpkin seeds. You have to limit the nuts, and I would suggest making sure you aren't feeding him sunflower seeds, as they are known to block absorbtion of nutrients in squirrels. (that's why commercial mixes aren't very good for them) Pumpkin seeds can be obtained at Petco in the wild bird section. It's called Chuckanut. Pumpkin seeds are high in protein and are pretty good for them.

And, again, not sure about squirrels, but I know that male parrots gererally get kinda nasty when they become sexually mature. But, they also tend to "come back down" after a certain number of years once their hormones level out. Think of your teenage years. :) Amplify that times 100 for metabolism/activity levels and then put it all in a cage for most of the day. Not pretty, huh? :D

I would suggest a mostly veggie diet, natural or artificial sunlight and lots of patience. You also might consider placing him in a breeding program if you don't feel you can give him what he needs or tollerate his agressiveness.

Oh, and on a side note, after my dad's last Rottie was shipped from Florida and has ever since been a little "off", I would never ship an animal. One can only imagine what they go through in the baggage compartment where there is no ventilation.

Please keep us posted and I hope this is helpful...

[muffinsquirrel]

My flyers get Nut 'n Berry as a staple food - always available. I get it at WalMart. At night, they get a variety of veggies and fruit - apples, cucumbers and sweet potatoes are always a favorite. Also mushrooms, and lately those little grape tomatoes are really 'hitting the spot'. At least three or four times a week, they get Dannon LaCreme yogurt, which they love, for extra calcium. I use L&M Liquid vitamins for mammals - one drop per ounce of water. (They package it for ferrets, hamsters, guinea pigs, rabbits, etc., but it is all the same thing - only the dosage is different.) They each get half of a pecan each night, usually hand fed. In-shell nuts, of course, usually always available for them. Let's see....what else. Acorns, pumpkin seeds, pyracantha berries when available, roses, rose hips, honeysuckle, most anything that blooms and isn't poisionous, twigs and seeds from the maple trees, small branches from the trees around the house, apple twigs when I prune the trees. They also have large - as large as I can get in the cage - oak branches to run on and chew on.

They have lots of toys to play on, and each cage has a large stealth wheel in it. I change out their toys from time to time so they won't get bored with them. They all have a choice of a nest box and several fleece pouches to sleep in, with plenty of cotton balls for bedding - just make sure it is 100% cotton.

I do not worry about full spectrum lighting for the flyers, as they are nocturnal, and do not get daylight in the wild. I've had flyers for 5 or 6 years or more, and haven't had any problems with lighting.

I use cages that are 30" wide, 18" deep and 5' tall, and I make sure they all get plenty of 'out-of-cage' time with me to play at night.

Sorry this is so long - I tend to get carried away when talking about my flyers! I've even forgotten what the question was! :D At any rate, hope I've given you some information you can use.

muffinsquirrel

[Critter_Queen]

See, told ya I don't know about fliers. :) Forgot they were nocturnal! LOL! My brain sometimes....

[squirrellover109]

When I read what you (Ravenqueen) wrote about aggression, it is the exact same thing I am going through. I found my flyer in the back yard and did not purchase him from anyone. I have had him since last September and just in the last month, he has become very aggressive and has bitten my husband and I both in the face. We have never had any problems with him and I am hoping this aggression will go away. We are going to spray him with water next time he starts to get aggressive and see if that works. In the evening he has the run of the house and we usually always keep his cage door open so he can go in and out. He just had an episode last night where he started biting me and I put him in his cage and closed the door. It broke my heart to do that but he really scared me when he gets that way. I know what you are going through. My "little flyer" means the world to me and I could not even imagine letting him go. I was relieved to know I was not the only one going through this. Thanks everyone for their advice.

[Gabe]

squirllover109, You have a wild animal you are trying to keep as a pet!!! Maybe this is not the life your flyer is seeking. He may be trying to tell you that he prefers to live in the outdoors as he was meant to. It is the same as if someone had kidnapped you, and was holding you prisoner. He was not bred to be an indoor pet. That is why you may be experiencing the biting and him begging you to be let free and to be with his own kind.

[Mars]

I hate to say this but Gabe may be right. You never "find" just one flyer. They live in colonies and have complex extended families. It sounds like you may have such a family near by. You are very lucky. Consider releasing him to him back to his family.

This wasn't a pet you planned for. It was nature's little surprise package brought to you by some accident. There are domestically raised flyers and sugergliders that need loving homes. Or consider becoming a rehabber. We need caring people to foster, raise and release each year. We need loving homes for the many helpless little furr balls that come in to go to. Even if you only raised one litter a year that's one more litter safely returned to the wild. And I promise each and every one will wrap it's tail around your heart. :Love_Icon

[ravenqueen]

Hey Everybody! I just wanted to give you an update on Puck. We have been working on his diet and behavior together, and we have definitely seen improvement!

On the diet side: I have stopped feeding him the hamster mix, which had sunflower seeds in it, and started him on a "bugs and berries" bird mix. We have been more consistant with giving him fruit, veggies and freeze-dried bugs (as I said earlier, he's afraid of live ones) on a daily basis. I haven't been able to get him any flowers since it's winter in Colorado, but I'm going to look in the salad section of our natural foods store next time we are there to see what they have. We've continued with the vitamins in his water as well. I also bought him a bag of hard-shelled nuts to hopefully grind his teeth down better. He has hardwood branches, but I thought the nuts would stimulate him a little more as well. Last night he stole and almond as big as his head from me and immediately ran to his "food" nest. He has two nest boxes--one for sleeping, one for tasty food. :)

On the behavior side: I was able to be with him a lot over the holiday. He's still pretty independant, but he also still comes by to groom me. He started to bite my fingers (not hard enough to draw blood) so I kept the dog whistle in my mouth and did a short burst everytime he did it (my poor bunnies were hating it!). He started biting more lightly, so I'm going to keep doing it until he fully "gets it." He hasn't drawn blood on anyone for at least two weeks now, so I think we are moving in the right direction. Another thing we are working on is keeping his claws ground down. My hubby has more sensitive skin than I do, and we noticed that he really tenses up when Puck jumps to him, so we're thinking that the biting behaviour directed at my husband might be reactive. Animals sense those sorts of things. I got him a rough perch that will hopefully dull the claws, and my husband has his own dog whistle, so hopefully we can break the aggressiveness between them. We haven't had a lot of time to work on it, since my husband has been working like mad, but hopefully we'll see more results soon.

Things to keep working on: I think that we have had a hard time keeping our bond tight because he gets pent up in his cage, so the second I let him out, he wants to spend time running an exploring instead of being with me. He has a big wheel that he runs on all night, and a chew toy that dangles that he can swing from, as well as branches and tunnels to play on, but I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions on toys that will stimulate him at night while we are sleeping so that he doesn't get so bored. I think if he weren't so bored during his waking hours, that when I can be with him in the afternoon/evening, he might be more willing to hang out with me. Any thoughts?

Thanks for your help, everyone! Keep it coming! The more we learn, the more we can educate others!

[Dee]

I am pleased that you have noticed improvement in the agression of your flyer.

We have been so fortunate with our Chip & Dale ... and they were
wild babies (eyes not yet open).. and have always been so loving and trusting... We have had them for three years now.

There are no wild colonies near us, as our babies were brought to us
from a neighbor who visited her mother who lived several
hours from us; she found them in her mother's attic. Something had eaten the right front leg off of the male and he could never fend for himself in the wild.. therefore, I decided to keep both the male and female; not wanting
to put her out there on her own to be eaten by coyotes, hawks, bob cats,
etc.

I crack or peel the nut shells for Chip.. he tries
to eat them.. but just drops them... his sister can chew through
the shell in seconds! I do have braches and wood blocks for them
to chew on to keep his teeth healthy.

I keep them in the 6' cage that we had built for them, but
it's open door play time policy every evening... The daily diet of
fresh fruit and veggies, along with various nuts.. and vitamins seem to be working well, they also love meal worms that I purchase from a pet store.
I also place packaged small animal treats and commercial mixture
of gerbil food in a seperate food dish. I read in one of my
searches that they love Monkey Biscuits; they also help with
nutritional needs and their teeth. My husband says that
the squirrels eat better than we do. <smile> Sorry to go on so...
but they have been such a treasure I just seem to ramble on about them.