Babies on the doorstep. What do I do now?

[tdavis]

This morning, when I was walking out the door to go to work, I noticed these two baby flyers laying in my carport. One was on the steps, the other was laying on the cold concrete floor.
I didn't know what to do, and didn't want to just leave them there, as they just didn't seem very healthy, in my opinion. They didn't fight very hard to get away when I picked them up to move them.
I had a cage in the attic that I quickly cleaned up and put them in until I could figure out what to do during my lunch break.
It's later now, and being nocturnal by nature, they both seem alot more 'with it', and are standing up on all fours like they should, and seem like they're strength and temperature are normal.
I've always wanted flying squirrels as pets. Years ago I had two gray squirrels.
Anyway.. Tonight I walked out side with the flash light to see if I could see their mother in the trees around the house. I found a nest, and another flyer looking down at me. Could be the mother, I don't know. I didn't even know we had flying squirrels in this neighborhood until this morning.
My question is, what do I do? Do I put them back outside and let nature run it's course? Have I ruined the chance of the mother accepting them back by holding them in my hands and giving them a new nest box? Would they even know how to get back TO their nest? Assuming of course that the nest I saw tonight is even theirs?
I want what's best for these two kids. I'd love to raise them myself, and I do have the time and desire to do so, but would it be the right thing to do?
Please advise as quick as you can. You're the pros.. I'm just a 'wanna be' right now.
==========
Also, can you estimate how old they are by this photo? It'll help determining what and how to feed them if the decision is made to keep them.
Thanks for any and all help you can give!
-Trey

[Squerly]

Wow Trey, that's a tough one. They look large enough that their going to make a run for it if you put them outside. Not sure that will be the best thing for them though.

What time of the day was it when you took the pictures?

[Mrs. Jack]

Ohhh they are so adorable. I love that you want to do what's best for them.. I'm afraid I don't know what that is though. *waits for flyer experts* I know that a mama grey won't reject her babies if touched by a human.. Good luck please keep us posted.

[Squerly]

Question... is this a shadow or is this squirrel bleading? I'm assuming that becuase you didn't mention any damage that it is just a shadow...

[tdavis]

Thanks for the quick replies. But here's another update.. I was outside again looking for mothers or nests, etc.. Found a third baby in the carport.
My wife said that she heard something in the corner this morning, but thought it was just a bug or something, but I found the third squirrel in that spot just a few minutes ago. I put him in the cage with the other two, and he jumped right in the pile and snuggled up with them. He was shivering a little, but I'm not surprised since he's probably been in that same spot, on that cold concrete floor all day. He seems fine now though. Regardless of what decisions we make on where they stay or go, we'll definitely have to keep our eyes open at least for the next few days, to make sure there aren't any more.
Squerly, I took those photos this afternoon during my lunch break, when I got back with the bedding and food. It was around 2pm. It was 9:30am when I found them this morning.
The photo you're asking about is just the shadow though. No blood. When I put them in the cage, I checked them all over as best I could. I didn't see any sores or broken skin, and no signs of swelling from breaks or fractures. And when I picked them up, they were all standing and sitting normally without showing any favourtism to hurt legs or anything. They do seem to have a few brown fleas on them though. Kinda expected that with them being wild and the pine trees around.
Along with whatever help I get online, I plan on calling a few local vets tomorrow. Maybe see if there is a local breeder that I can work with for some answers.

[Squerly]

Squerly, I took those photos this afternoon during my lunch break, when I got back with the bedding and food. It was around 2pm. OK, good. At 2:00 they would not be active and that was what I was concerned about. The one that is on the left looked very docile and I was afraid that s/he might be hurt. I'm still concerned that s/he wasn't diving for cover as you won't find many flyers just lying around during the daytime. They generally want to be covered up.

I think that you are doing the right thing by trying to find a rehabber to help you with them. They will probably make wonderful members to your family, given their age. But having 1 flyer will make a large change in your lifestyle; 3 flyers is a lot to handle.

In my "very unprofessional" opinion, they are of the age that they will adapt very well to a captive family life. But be fully committed to their needs prior to making that decision.

[Squerly]

They do seem to have a few brown fleas on them though. Kinda expected that with them being wild and the pine trees around.
I guess that supprises me a little because flying squirrels (to my knowledge) don't have problems with fleas. I would try to pick them off if possible but if that proves to be too much of a problem I don't think that I would worry too much about it. They will probably take care of it themselves. Once again, this is just my "unprofessional" opinion and one that I base upon my having lived with flyers for a good many years. But then again, mine were never exposed to a nest that was infested with fleas.

[snakegetters]

Wild animals with highly specialized nutritional, behavioral and housing requirements do not make good "pets" for the average person who is not willing to invest a large amount of time and money and do some real research to be able to appropriately meet their needs.

If you are willing to commit a very substantial chunk of your life (and your time, and your money, and your house) to a wild animal, essentially adopting that animal as a family member, then you may be able to give that animal a very good quality of life, and have a great experience living with it.

Most people really don't understand how specialized the needs of wild animals in captivity are, and they think they can get by with what seems intuitively right to them. So they don't bother doing any serious research as to what the actual needs of the animal are for its health and happiness. Squirrels can eat cat food and live in a small bird cage their whole lives, right? Um, no. That is extremely inhumane to the animal, and it generally ends up being not much fun for the people either. So please don't do that.

It's your decision as to whether you want a pet squirrel, but it isn't one that should be made casually or lightly. Do some serious research as to what the living requirements of a flying squirrel are, and if you are willing and able to commit to making this animal part of your life and giving it what it needs to be healthy and happy, then keeping it is an option.

Legality is also something to be considered, as are issues of whether you are taking something away from your local ecosystem than is really needed there. If you keep a pet squirrel in a state where it is illegal to do that, if you get caught, the squirrel may be euthanized. Not a nice thing to do to a squirrel, so think hard about the risks involved and how you plan to handle them.

[Squerly]

Wild animals with highly specialized nutritional, behavioral and housing requirements do not make good "pets" for the average person who is not willing to invest a large amount of time and money and do some real research to be able to appropriately meet their needs.

If you are willing to commit a very substantial chunk of your life (and your time, and your money, and your house) to a wild animal, essentially adopting that animal as a family member, then you may be able to give that animal a very good quality of life, and have a great experience living with it.

Most people really don't understand how specialized the needs of wild animals in captivity are, and they think they can get by with what seems intuitively right to them. So they don't bother doing any serious research as to what the actual needs of the animal are for its health and happiness. Squirrels can eat cat food and live in a small bird cage their whole lives, right? Um, no. That is extremely inhumane to the animal, and it generally ends up being not much fun for the people either. So please don't do that.

It's your decision as to whether you want a pet squirrel, but it isn't one that should be made casually or lightly. Do some serious research as to what the living requirements of a flying squirrel are, and if you are willing and able to commit to making this animal part of your life and giving it what it needs to be healthy and happy, then keeping it is an option.

Legality is also something to be considered, as are issues of whether you are taking something away from your local ecosystem than is really needed there. If you keep a pet squirrel in a state where it is illegal to do that, if you get caught, the squirrel may be euthanized. Not a nice thing to do to a squirrel, so think hard about the risks involved and how you plan to handle them.OK Tdavis, there is a lot of wisdom in this post. Carefully consider all of the above when making your decision. Flyers (generally) make wonderfull pets but you MUST be committed to their needs.

Excellent post Snakegetters. :bowdown

[tdavis]

In another forum, someone mentioned that I should put them in a box as high in the tree as I could. It's a tall pine with no branches until WAY up there, so this would mean nailing a small box about 7-8 feet up. They said that the mother would come down and get them in a few hours or so. Do you guys agree?
Snakegetters and Squirly, I'll honor your advice if I decide to keep them. Thank you for everything.

[snakegetters]

Adapting your home (or even just one or two rooms) to be squirrel safe is a pretty nontrivial thing. It would not be fun for either humans or squirrels if a baby crawled behind your computer and bit into some cords, electrocuting itself and frying your system. Squirrels can get into all kinds of trouble in a normal human environment that is unhealthy for them and expensive for you.

Keeping them in a small cage isn't an option either, so the choices are to squirrel proof a room or two or three, or build a cage of fairly serious dimensions that will pretty much take up most of a room. Do you want these animals as members of your family enough to give them their own bedroom, or make substantial alterations to yours if you are sharing?

I would never say, "Nobody should ever keep (insert wild animal here) as a pet." Some private keepers are able to spend more time and money and resources on the health and happiness of their charges than the average zoo would. Ergo the animal is better off in their hands than in a zoo, and may arguably have a better quality of life in many respects than it could have in the wild. So sure, it's theoretically okay to keep a wild animal as a pet if you do it right. What it isn't is easy, or cheap.

Most people who try to keep wild animals as pets don't do such a good job, which is really unfortunate as the problems that careless and irresponsible people cause make it more difficult for responsible keepers to operate legally. Also I'd have to say that most zookeepers and animal professionals end up being diametrically opposed to the private ownership of wild animals. I completely understand why, because after you have rescued the fifteenth badly mistreated, malnourished and suffering wild animal from a horrily abusive if well meaning home....in a week.....you tend to completely lose your sense of humor on the subject. Especially after having to euthanize the unrecoverable ones who are so far gone with long term nutritional disorders thanks to a stupidly inappropriate diet that they will never have a pain free or functional life.

So, yeah, keep the squirrels if you want them enough to offer them a pretty serious piece of your life and your home. But please don't be one of Those People that I end up rescuing or confiscating a wild animal from because they are hurting it badly. They may say they love their pet, but love isn't supposed to kill.

The fact that you care enough to ask about them on this board is very encouraging. So you're definitely on the right track to making a good and informed decision for the health and happiness of these animals.

[rygel1hardt]

Hello
In my humble opinion these three baby squirrels are away from nest and momma because I would bet something has happened to her. Babies with a mother tending them at this age dont all three end up on the floor of a carport. I am guessing these poor little guys started to get hungry after momma went missing and came out of their nest looking for her. You need to decide how big a life commitment you want to make to these guys and if you dont see turning your life over to them along with a room or two then I would suggest you contact a rehabber ASAP!!! If your intention would be to release them at some point back to the wild they will need to be wintered over which means they will have to be kept and fed but NOT tamed and handled through the winter. So here are your two options: One keep them as pets and I dont think they are legal to have as pets in your state. Two you can contact a rehabber that can take them and get them ready for a Spring release back to the wild. If you decide to keep them please do your research as they have very special dietary needs. The reason I mentioned that they may be illegal to have as pets in your state is the fact that if you were to keep them you would not be able to seek veterinary attention for them should they become ill. Vets in most states where it is illegal to have pet squirrels will either confiscate and euthanize the squirrel or turn you in for having it so as not to risk losing their own license to practice. Something else to consider is that you may at some point have to have any males neutered so they dont inter breed with their own littermate sisters. This can get expensive and is not even an option if you are in an illegal state or they will have to be housed seperately requiring two very large cages in your house or two seperate rooms that are squirrel proofed. Well that about sums it up and I know you want what is best for them so please weigh everything carefully and please keep us informed as to your decision and good luck either way! Stacey



Thanks for the quick replies. But here's another update.. I was outside again looking for mothers or nests, etc.. Found a third baby in the carport.
My wife said that she heard something in the corner this morning, but thought it was just a bug or something, but I found the third squirrel in that spot just a few minutes ago. I put him in the cage with the other two, and he jumped right in the pile and snuggled up with them. He was shivering a little, but I'm not surprised since he's probably been in that same spot, on that cold concrete floor all day. He seems fine now though. Regardless of what decisions we make on where they stay or go, we'll definitely have to keep our eyes open at least for the next few days, to make sure there aren't any more.
Squerly, I took those photos this afternoon during my lunch break, when I got back with the bedding and food. It was around 2pm. It was 9:30am when I found them this morning.
The photo you're asking about is just the shadow though. No blood. When I put them in the cage, I checked them all over as best I could. I didn't see any sores or broken skin, and no signs of swelling from breaks or fractures. And when I picked them up, they were all standing and sitting normally without showing any favourtism to hurt legs or anything. They do seem to have a few brown fleas on them though. Kinda expected that with them being wild and the pine trees around.
Along with whatever help I get online, I plan on calling a few local vets tomorrow. Maybe see if there is a local breeder that I can work with for some answers.

[Somebody's Mother]

i just found out yesterday that it is illegal to keep squirrels as pets in south carolina. but having said that there are people here that will help.
i am in the upstate and i have a vet that will willingly help with a squirrel and never say a word. he may not be the most knowledgeable about their diets but if i bring one in and it would need a splint or a antibiotic he would help.
keep those babies warm. and if it turns out you got too many to handle let me know. i am willing to be an outlaw for a squirrel. already was and didn't even know it.

[snakegetters]

Getting wildlife permits in your state may be a possibility. It's worth looking into, and it might save your squirrel's life under some circumstances.

It's also wise to have somewhere to quietly squirrel away the actual squirrel during the process of application, so you can say that you don't currently have a squirrel without a permit if the question comes up.

Alternatively, find a dead one and keep it in your freezer or bury it in a plastic bag inside of a box in your yard. If you fail in the permit application process and the nice officers come looking, hand them this evidence that the animal you picked up to rescue because it was hurt has already died, and there is no live animal for them to confiscate and euthanize. Note that this may not always keep a wildlife officer from searching your premises, but it does stand a pretty decent chance of working.

Some vets will still work with squirrels whether they are illegal or not, but it will increase your options and your animal's health and safety to get the permits if they are gettable in your state. There are California vets who do ferrets without question, even though those animals are illegal in that state. Vets *do not* lose their license for seeing illegal animals.

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

Is it possible for you to do some detective work & see if Mom does come around?

[tdavis]

I mounted a box on the tree that I'm pretty sure their mother and nest is in. I placed the three babies in there with plenty of 100% cotton to keep warm and hide in. I've also got a surveillance camera with night vision set up, to hopefully see the mother come down and get them tonight.
I'm not sure if they ate anything in the cage last night, but they did urinate, and the water showed signs of some action. I'm hoping that this evening they wake up and get their mother's attention.

[Momma Squirrel]

tdavis, please keep us posted. Sounds like you are very equiped there to keep an eye on everything, how cool. Hope momma does come back, if not will you take them back in and raise them??

[Somebody's Mother]

wow a surveillance camera to watch for mama. i'm impressed!! keep us posted. if you do end up needing a rehabber there is one not too far from you that we took karen to.

and there is also a seperate board with info on flying squirrels if you need it.

http://www.nfsa.us/phpBB2/index.php

this will always be my favorite postboard because it was my first squirrel forum.

[snakegetters]

Well done. I'm impressed at the lengths you are going to in order to do the right thing by these animals. Please keep us posted.

[Squerly]

I mounted a box on the tree that I'm pretty sure their mother and nest is in. I placed the three babies in there with plenty of 100% cotton to keep warm and hide in. I've also got a surveillance camera with night vision set up, to hopefully see the mother come down and get them tonight.
I'm not sure if they ate anything in the cage last night, but they did urinate, and the water showed signs of some action. I'm hoping that this evening they wake up and get their mother's attention.Wow, you are unbelievable. I'm quite sure that you have secured a high place in the afterlife for this. :bowdown You certainly made me feel better about humanity.

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

:thumbsup people like you are golden!

[Mrs. Jack]

I hope mama shows up, that'd be such a happily ever after. Although I suspect that these little bitties will be in good hands no matter what. :)

[tdavis]

You guys would not BELIEVE how excited I am right now! All three babies are back in the nest with their mother! And not only did I not know that there were flying squirrels around our house, but tonight I actually got to see the mother fly/glide back to her nest and look down at me. I'm sure she was just curious about the flash light again, but I'm pretending it was her way of saying thank you!
Okay, so here's what happened tonight.
I brought the babies in and fed them early this afternoon and evening. They were eager every time to eat, which made me feel alot better about their health and future. After doing some reading and talking with a clerk at the pet store, I made a formula of heavy whipping cream, Esbilac powder, and water. They took to it really well, and seemed to be alot more active afterwards.. Can't blame them since I know they hadn't eaten in a while. I also had some canteloupe pieces that they didn't chew on, but loved to lick.
Okay, so I put them back in the box I mounted on the tree, around 9pm. I sat here at my desk watching the surveillance video the whole time. Then around 1am, one of the babies just out of nowhere came out from under then cotton, and climed out of the box and up the side of the tree. About a second later, the camera was bumped and knocked over by something bigger than the baby! So I'm thinking maybe the mother came down, and the one saw or smelled her and went up the tree.
I waited about 20 minutes before I went outside to check the other two and fix the camera.
The other two were still in the box, but the mother and the first baby were halfway up the tree. I was so excited. And I don't know if I shouldn't have done it or not, but I wanted to get the other two going, so I pulled them out from under the cotton and let them feel the bark of the tree. I put them about 6 inches above the box pointing upwards, and left them alone.
I went back out to check on them around 2am, and they're all gone! Then that's when I saw the mother again, glide in from the next tree over.
I feel really confident that they are all in fact together, with their mother in their own nest now.
I have that little bit of action on tape! It was so awesome how he just popped his head up and looked around a bit, then climed out like he knew exactly what his mission was!
I'll try to get that clip loaded to my website tomorrow (wednesday).. But it's 2:45am right now, and I'm going to bed!
Thank you, all of you, for your help and support.. I try to be a tough guy all the time, but I'm a big softy when it comes to baby animals and my own kids..
I'll keep you posted if there is ever any news on this newly reunited family!
Man, I'm so happy..
G'nite!
-Trey

[Somebody's Mother]

thank you for sharing with us. i am so happy that it all worked out. you did a great thing!! :thumbsup

[Mrs. Jack]

Yes!!!!!! Oh that is just the greatest thing. Man I hope you feel so GOOD about yourself, Trey, it's a wonderful thing you've done. You'll have generations of flyers pointing you out now: "Hey, that's the guy that saved your grandpa.. you don't know that story? well let me tell you...." :thumbsup
Would love to see the film and hear updates, and have you stick around the squirrelboard. :)

[Squerly]

Wow Trey, that is really great! You da man! :bowdown

[Momma Squirrel]

Trey that is super, what a great story to start my day with :wahoo You are truly a good person to have taken all that effort and time to deal with the situation, so glad you were able to share it with all of us :bowdown Please keep us posted on your new backyard family.

[rippie-n-lilgirlsmom]

:thankyou for checking & tending to them:bowdown you are a wonderful person!